Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

[Dogtrousers]

Have to say every time I leave The Hellhole That Is London for the leafy glades of Herts/Essex, it's really noticeable just how much worse/more dangerous the driving becomes. 100% pointless high speed close passes, eg - all but unknown in the big smoke, regular occurrence out in the sticks.

My experience in a southerly direction into Kent is similar re close passes. But there's a reason why you don't get high speed close passes nearer the centre. You don't get high speed anything!

It's interesting that probably the quieter rural roads that I ride out to enjoy are probably just as dangerous, if not more so, than the busier roads that I hate cycling on that I'm escaping.

 

[mjr]

Have to say every time I leave The Hellhole That Is London for the leafy glades of Herts/Essex, it's really noticeable just how much worse/more dangerous the driving becomes. 100% pointless high speed close passes, eg - all but unknown in the big smoke, regular occurrence out in the sticks.

It depends where. When you get out in the real sticks, far enough from That London, drivers calm down a bit except for during disruption (nobody told their Google or Waze or whatever there would be farmers using tractors to bring in the harvest, preventing them from achieving their target time) or tourist hotspots. No-one expects driving to be fast where even A roads are basically tarmacked bendy cart tracks.

The worst road for motorist behaviour that I've ridden was in Essex, near Harlow. I wonder if the work done to humanise That London has meant that the worst daffodil drivers have moved out of it but only to within "easy driving distance".

 

[Alex321]

I'm not sure how I've done that. What do you mean?

I was making the point that making driving more expensive would hurt those leats able to afford it.

Your response didn't touch on that point at all.

 

[mjr]

It's interesting that probably the quieter rural roads that I ride out to enjoy are probably just as dangerous, if not more so, than the busier roads that I hate cycling on that I'm escaping.

I've not checked the latest figures (and the cycling distance estimates to match the casualty figures in the above press release are not yet available), but it used to be that you were less likely to be injured riding rural roads, but if you were, it was more likely to be serious or fatal.

I suspect this reflects the frankly-inappropriate outdated speed limits on minor rural roads. It really ought to be 40mph limit on roads too minor or narrow to have painted lane lines IMO.

 

[MichaelW2]

Have to say every time I leave The Hellhole That Is London for the leafy glades of Herts/Essex, it's really noticeable just how much worse/more dangerous the driving becomes. 100% pointless high speed close passes, eg - all but unknown in the big smoke, regular occurrence out in the sticks.

I found the Guildford area to be to hazardous for cycling. These are Rural Shaped Roads.

 

[Alex321]

When it comes to rural roads, there are many kinds.
Some have grass growing down the middle. Some are heavily used B roads from villiages to town. The drivers know the road well and can drive too fast.
Rural A roads are something to avoid where possible.

I wonder if lot of new or returning lockdown cyclists aporoach rural cycling too naively. There are dangers just as there are in the city and you have to be aware what may be ahead and behind you on blind corners with banked verges and no escape route.

I would largely agree with that, except that rather than saying "rural A roads", I would say "Rural main roads". They are often B roads, but can still be rather busy and have fast traffic on them. A couple of examples near us being the Llantwit Major - Bridgend road (B4265) and Llantwit Major - Cowbridge road (B4270). I do sometimes use both of those, but nowadays prefer to avoid them if reasonably possible.

The roads I prefer riding on are the ones between those and the "grass growing down the middle" type. I do ride some of the latter as well, but they tend to have a worse surface, particularly near the edges.

 

[Dogtrousers]

I've not checked the latest figures (and the cycling distance estimates to match the casualty figures in the above press release are not yet available), but it used to be that you were less likely to be injured riding rural roads, but if you were, it was more likely to be serious or fatal.

I suspect this reflects the frankly-inappropriate outdated speed limits on minor rural roads. It really ought to be 40mph limit on roads too minor or narrow to have painted lane lines IMO.

I wasn't making a fact based claim. Just that it's possible/probable that "gut feel" perception of the nicer roads as being safer is way off. And as you say they are different threats - I may get a bit banged up at low speed in SE London, but I could get killed in a high speed collision on a rural road.

 

[Milkfloat]

Road.cc have a better breakdown of figures https://road.cc/content/news/analysis-cyclists-most-risk-rural-roads-288301

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

We need to make it prohibitively expensive to use motor cars for unnecessary trips. This figure isn't rural but shows the massive increase in motor vehicle use that is choking everything. Between 2009 and 2019, the number of miles driven on roads just within London increased by 3.6 BILLION.

Yes, billion.

View attachment 620159

If I'm not mistaken, the 1999 - 2009 decline in London traffic numbers follow the governments of the day with a 2-year lag. It suggests that Labour public transport policies were rather more successful than the Conservatives'. Investigating that might be more useful than resorting to population control policies.

 

[swee'pea99]

My experience in a southerly direction into Kent is similar re close passes. But there's a reason why you don't get high speed close passes nearer the centre. You don't get high speed anything!

Fair point. But it does feel to me like London drivers have overwhelmingly kind of shrugged their shoulders and learned to live with The Cyclist. There are just too many of them not to. There doesn't seem the same actively hostile/aggressive mindset I find out in Essex, where people will overtake you within a foot at 60 mph though the other side of the road is clearly clear for the next half mile.

population control policies.

What, like a cull of Essex Subaru drivers? Excellent. I mean, it's only a start but every little helps, eh?

 

[mjr]

Road.cc have a better breakdown of figures https://road.cc/content/news/analysis-cyclists-most-risk-rural-roads-288301

Thanks for that. Yes, much better than most reporting.

And it quotes some horrible nonsense from British Cycling's Policy Manager (they only trust him with policies, not people?) like "Wear the right clothes – in the mixed light and weather conditions that are typically encountered during a daytime ride in the UK, there’s no one type of clothing that will ensure you’re seen at all times." Or in other words, it'll always be our fault for wearing the wrong clothes at some point during a ride.

He also opens with "Ride defensively but respectfully", then has "Be considerate of the needs of other road users" and finishes with "Consider the communities you are cycling through", which could be taken to imply that rural cyclists are being killed due to them being disrespectful and inconsiderate, which I really doubt. Has anyone heard of cyclists being loaded into wicker men recently? I strongly suspect more deaths are due to crap driving than cyclists dissing villagers.

British Cycling members, please make your thoughts on that known to your federation!

 

[glasgowcyclist]

I was making the point that making driving more expensive would hurt those leats able to afford it.

Your response didn't touch on that point at all.

On the contrary; I said that car users (and that includes those on a tight car-owning budget) would need to adjust their usage to keep the costs affordable. I don't think there's any way around reduced usage to fix the problem, whether you run a Rolls or a banger.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

If I'm not mistaken, the 1999 - 2009 decline in London traffic numbers follow the governments of the day with a 2-year lag. It suggests that Labour public transport policies were rather more successful than the Conservatives'. Investigating that might be more useful than resorting to population control policies.

I'm not in favour of population control policies, I think that was someone else's idea.

 

[Alex321]

I've not checked the latest figures (and the cycling distance estimates to match the casualty figures in the above press release are not yet available), but it used to be that you were less likely to be injured riding rural roads, but if you were, it was more likely to be serious or fatal.

I suspect this reflects the frankly-inappropriate outdated speed limits on minor rural roads. It really ought to be 40mph limit on roads too minor or narrow to have painted lane lines IMO.

While I take your point that the speed limits are too high on those roads, only a lunatic would drive at speeds approaching the limit on most of them.

 

[Alex321]

On the contrary; I said that car users (and that includes those on a tight car-owning budget) would need to adjust their usage to keep the costs affordable. I don't think there's any way around reduced usage to fix the problem, whether you run a Rolls or a banger.

Which does not address in any way the fact that increasing costs will most hurt those least able to afford it.

Those who can only just about afford to run a car at all but who find it essential aren't the problem, because they also can't afford to use their cars excessively. Making it more expensive would hurt them badly, while not affecting those who do use their cars excessively very much.

And separately from that, I also disagree strongly with your basic premise here - "I don't think there's any way around reduced usage to fix the problem". The problem here can be alleviated by better education, better enforcement and other measures without any need at all for reduction in usage.

There are other issues which may only be solvable by reduced usage, but this is not one of those.