Cyclist vs motorist vs pedestrian

[User76022]

I'm sure we've all at some point at least witnessed the age old feud between different types of road user. Yet most of us are at least 2 out of the 3.

So I'm wondering. There's no sense in animosity. So I wonder what, if anything, we can do to try to phase out the 'us and them' that often exists.

Here's some of my thoughts. As a motorist, things that really bug me about some cyclists are:

inappropriately angled lights. I fully understand the importance of being seen. But I also understand the importance of sight to fellow road users. To that end, when I'm a cyclist, I have my high viz jacket on, and I ensure my lights are angled to point slightly down, such that they are clearly visible while not dazzling other road users. If I were to modify my car to point the lights up into people's faces and optionally strobe them, the police might have something to say. I'm not going to do it on my bike.

Conversely, it drives me crazy when a cyclist in dark clothing suddenly emerges from a pool of car headlights right in front of me.

When I'm a cyclist things that bug me about motorists is when they overtake, only to slam on in front of me because their junction is looming. As a motorist if I'm behind a bike, I'll happily drive slow leaving plenty of room until its completely safe to overtake without either roaring the engine in their lug hole or cutting them off.

When I'm a motorist I hate when cyclists ride 2 inches next to my car in stop start traffic so I have to look out for them in addition to everything else. When I'm a cyclist I hate when cars leave no room, when people park in cycle lanes, when people ignore ASLs etc.

All of these things are easily fixable with a gentle mix of basic rules and common courtesy.

Thoughts?

 

[MontyVeda]

Humans have a habit of putting themselves in a little group and pointing the finger at the other groups. The us and them mentally is, unfortunately, part of human nature.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Do you have any popcorn?

 

[Salty seadog]

So I'm wondering. There's no sense in animosity. So I wonder what, if anything, we can do to try to phase out the 'us and them' that often exists.

Education.

 

[mjr]

Let me check I've understood this: three out of four things there are things cyclists are doing wrong, while the fourth is couched in language about being "behind a bike" and "slow" and you're wondering why there's animosity?!?!?

And in all of the above situations, if it all goes wrong, who is most likely to get injured? Hint: not the motorist.

If you don't want it to be "them and us", maybe not make the post quite so lopsided.

 

[sheddy]

from last months grauniad
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...to-cyclist-and-motorist-them-and-us-mentality

 

[classic33]

I'm sure we've all at some point at least witnessed the age old feud between different types of road user. Yet most of us are at least 2 out of the 3.

So I'm wondering. There's no sense in animosity. So I wonder what, if anything, we can do to try to phase out the 'us and them' that often exists.

Here's some of my thoughts. As a motorist, things that really bug me about some cyclists are:

inappropriately angled lights. I fully understand the importance of being seen. But I also understand the importance of sight to fellow road users. To that end, when I'm a cyclist, I have my high viz jacket on, and I ensure my lights are angled to point slightly down, such that they are clearly visible while not dazzling other road users. If I were to modify my car to point the lights up into people's faces and optionally strobe them, the police might have something to say. I'm not going to do it on my bike.

Conversely, it drives me crazy when a cyclist in dark clothing suddenly emerges from a pool of car headlights right in front of me.

When I'm a cyclist things that bug me about motorists is when they overtake, only to slam on in front of me because their junction is looming. As a motorist if I'm behind a bike, I'll happily drive slow leaving plenty of room until its completely safe to overtake without either roaring the engine in their lug hole or cutting them off.

When I'm a motorist I hate when cyclists ride 2 inches next to my car in stop start traffic so I have to look out for them in addition to everything else. When I'm a cyclist I hate when cars leave no room, when people park in cycle lanes, when people ignore ASLs etc.

All of these things are easily fixable with a gentle mix of basic rules and common courtesy.

Thoughts?

Wouldn't that put you on the wrong side of the road?

 

[Drago]

But cyclists only kill half a person a year on average, whereas motorists slaughter millions. They're the problem, the government and media should concentrate on them and not worry about cyclists who don't use lights, cycle across the lawn at the orphanage, carry machine guns, eat dead puppies, yadda yadda, etc, et al...

Too many in each camp who think the rules should apply to everyone but them. We either wait until those with that attitude grow old and die, or for the oil to run out and force the motorists onto the bus.

 

[User76022]

Let me check I've understood this: three out of four things there are things cyclists are doing wrong, while the fourth is couched in language about being "behind a bike" and "slow" and you're wondering why there's animosity?!?!?

And in all of the above situations, if it all goes wrong, who is most likely to get injured? Hint: not the motorist.

If you don't want it to be "them and us", maybe not make the post quite so lopsided.

I didn't even realise I'd shown bias. That wasn't the intention. I just kind of rattled off a few ideas that immediately spring to mind. I'm sorry I didn't bother to carefully proof read it all or employ a psychologist to or lawyer to ensure neutrality.

My intention was to try to find ideas that would help end animosity. If my post has created more, I apologise, and will leave it there.

 

[NorthernDave]

On my commute today I've encountered 3 cars driving around in the dark with no lights on - not running on just DRL's but no lights at all.
I've also had the pleasure of 2 motorists who had headlights so poorly aligned as to be a serious annoyance.

The OP is right that we should all play nicely, but people in little boxes seem to bristle at the idea of occasionally slowing down for a moment or two.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

I didn't even realise I'd shown bias. That wasn't the intention. I just kind of rattled off a few ideas that immediately spring to mind. I'm sorry I didn't bother to carefully proof read it all or employ a psychologist to or lawyer to ensure neutrality.

My intention was to try to find ideas that would help end animosity. If my post has created more, I apologise, and will leave it there.

Putting people into specific groups doesn't help.
The people who drive like dicks will also cycle like dicks and vice versa. We need fewer dicks on the road.

 

[User76022]

Those that are hating on the motorists? I wonder how many drive cars or have voluntarily been a passenger in one.

I had kind of hoped this thread would be productive, that in some small way we could bridge the divide.

Here's my own observation in a nutshell. When I'm out on my bike, I find myself sharing the road with a lot more motor vehicles than pushbikes. A lot more. I don't count them all but if I were to guess, I'd say at least a couple of hundred cars to every bike I see. Almost all of them follow the rules as a minimum. Some make mistakes, some of which have the potential to be dangerous but I don't believe there was malice or negligence, just misjudgement. Every now and then someone will do something stupid, careless, or even intentionally hostile.

I tend not to see a great many fellow cyclists out and about. Certainly nowhere near enough to be a representative sample of the cycling population. The ones I do see are also almost exclusively well behaved and courteous.

Of course when we're on a bike we are very vulnerable compared to when we're in a steel box. Perhaps this makes us more aware of the dangers we are sometimes put in by others, intentionally or otherwise. I should also put in that I'm very aware of differences between city centres and suburban or rural settings. It is my own observation that in cities, everyone seems to become more aggressive, be it on the bike or behind the wheel. This is to the extent that I won't ride in such conditions, literally for fear for my life.

I've never cycled abroad, but I've read that the culture is very different elsewhere. In particular in France, or so I read, bikes are routinely given priority, and of course in the Netherlands the government actually spends actual money on decent cycle routes instead of the crazy and often dangerous pothole riddled gutters we're expected to use.

 

[Drago]

No one mentioned the Dutch Reach yet?

 

[User76022]

No one mentioned the Dutch Reach yet?

Is this the one where you open the car door with the hand furthest from it, thus forcing you to twist and look over?

If that's what you mean, I think it's an excellent idea but not routinely taught in driving lessons as far as I know (it's a long time since I learned to drive so I could be wrong).

On that note though, when teaching my kids road skills, I do apply two rules in relation to passing parked cars. The first was a mantra of my old driving instructor. 'less space less speed'. The second is the door width rule. Always imagine that the doors are open. Pass with enough clearance to allow for it. Obviously that's not always possible, or even safe if there's oncoming traffic, but these are just two of the tools in the big box I like to label 'caution keeps you alive'.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Is this the one where you open the car door with the hand furthest from it

I think he'll be referring to a certain hand manoeuvre he enjoyed in Amsterdam one year.