Cyclists allowed to jump red lights

[Milkfloat]

Since when did something working in another country mean it would transplant successfully to the UK? History is littered with failed examples, from 24 hour alcohol licencing through to nationalisation of essential public services.

It may be a basis for looking properly at an issue, but glibly pointing at something happening in another country and proclaiming It works there so it'll work here is misguided at best.

I agree with you in principal - my comment was refuting a point saying that 'ALL traffic must be required to stop'. How this is implemented can be up for debate, but undoubtedly we can learn a lot from other countries/people. After all, the people of the world are broadly the same.

I seer the biggest obstacle here is changing decades of road user behavior. A sudden overnight countrywide change in regulation would undoubtedly result in a rise in casualties, the clever bit would be how to introduce such experiments and changes.

 

[ColinJ]

That's kind of my point really. It may be convenient, easy, quick...but then so is driving at 90mph down the high street and past school gates....but how is it safer?

It would let you get out of the way of vehicles that might otherwise turn left across you?

I have generally stopped signalling left because of the number of drivers who take it as an invitation to left hook me. (Some still do, even though they think that I am going straight on!)

 

[jonny jeez]

[QUOTE 3847967, member: 259"]I understand your point but I don't think it's any less safe either.[/QUOTE]
I suspect there is a danger, as this will ultimately create (or propagate) confusion,,which will result in a rider getting blindsided whilst spinning across a red , ignorant that they are doing anything wrong.

 

[jonny jeez]

It would let you get out of the way of vehicles that might otherwise turn left across you?

I have generally stopped signalling left because of the number of drivers who take it as an invitation to left hook me. (Some still do, even though they think that I am going straight on!)

I never have/had that problem. I must use a different position to you I guess.

 

[jonny jeez]

[QUOTE 3847976, member: 259"]They tend to put these signs in situations where it's quite low risk. i'd be surprised if they have caused more accidents than usual, but as it's in France now there will doubtless be a team of state statisticians working on the figures as we speak.[/QUOTE]
Sure, I'm not talking about the risk in the actual situation, I'm sure it's pretty low as, as others have said, it's curb hugging. I'm talking about new riders, not understanding and sailing across red lights because they have read the first line of an article, or worse still taken advice down the pub from a mate who has never ridden but reads the mail...and they're off.

I had a similar debate with someone on the commute section about adding confusion to riders...lets just make it simple...STOP AT REDS. No exception, no small print, ifs, buts, maybes...just stop.

 

[Milkfloat]

[QUOTE 3847971, member: 259"]One thing they are trying in the Netherlands is to remove traffic lights and road markings for everyone in dense urban areas, not just cyclists.[/QUOTE]

They tried the shared space in Coventry - a death occurred pretty quickly afterwards. I think it is how they are implemented that is the key - driver education, pedestrian education etc. I have used some of the Dutch ones - they seem to work pretty well and for sure I was concentrating very hard - speeds seemed lower.

 

[ColinJ]

I never have/had that problem. I must use a different position to you I guess.

It has nothing to do with me, and more to do with idiotic driving. I will give you an example ...

After doing a local audax ride I was coming home in traffic on a busy A-road between Rochdale and Littleborough. It was a fairly narrow stretch of road. I was doing > 20 mph. There was oncoming traffic. I had adopted a very strong primary position to deter dangerous overtaking but I heard the sound of a car coming up very quickly behind me. The driver started to overtake with the drivers coming the other way sounding their horns and flashing their lights to warn him off, but he persisted, signalling to turn left across me. The only thing that prevented it was that when he got alongside me, he discovered 2 other riders in front of me blocking his way. He ended up doing an emergency stop on the wrong side of the road, and got an earbashing from me and a driver coming the other way who was now stationary about 10 feet in front of him.

I want to get away from people like that at lights, not have them race me for the fastest left!

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

It seems to be the justification of the report, linked in the OP...bottom of the first para.

I'd have thought that the gains for safety would be marginal. Where more bikes replace larger, heavier, less manoeuvrable vehicles the potential for serious accidents is reduced. And if bikes are allowed out of the way, they're also out of danger from rear ending. There's merit in the keep moving rather than the stop-start rhythm mode of travel: bikes are more stable at cruising speed than when starting from stationary and the argument about the dangers of l'Étoile versus l'Arc de Triomphe lower down in the article (probably very much a cyclists' argument) seems relevant. Better to move with caution and alertness than get sucked into the dash-to-the-red way of progressing.

That said, there's potential for more pedestrian/cyclist conflict at turnings.

 

[Milkfloat]

[QUOTE 3847993, member: 259"]It will be different in the Netherlands anyway, as they use the priority to the right system, so there is a basis for knowing when it's OK for you to move and when you should stop.[/QUOTE]

Agreed - but I often found priority from the right was not adhered too in shared spaces - especially in a bicycle v car scenario.

 

[Dan B]

I had a similar debate with someone on the commute section about adding confusion to riders...lets just make it simple...STOP AT REDS. No exception, no small print, ifs, buts, maybes...just stop.

I doubt it's all that confusing otherwise we'd never be able to cope with Give Way signs, roundabouts, zebras ... let's just make it simple, GIVE WAY TO PEOPLE CROSSING YOUR PATH IN FRONT OF YOU

 

[Red17]

Would be chaos in Central London due to the amount of pedestrians crossing and number of cyclists on the road.

 

[xxDarkRiderxx]

Not sure if this is a good idea. I think we should all obey the road traffic rules, otherwise this becomes a grey area when an accident occurs, and it will.

 

[Milkfloat]

Not sure if this is a good idea. I think we should all obey the road traffic rules, otherwise this becomes a grey area when an accident occurs, and it will.

The idea is to change the road traffic rules, disobeying the existing rules is easy - making changes legal is harder.

 

[Ed Phelan]

Is it currently an offence to run a red light as a cyclist? It's definitely a grey area, and as much as I chastise fellow cyclists for running lights, I must admit I don't actually know...

 

[AndyRM]

Is it currently an offence to run a red light as a cyclist? It's definitely a grey area, and as much as I chastise fellow cyclists for running lights, I must admit I don't actually know...

It is, you can be issued with the same Fixed Penalty Notice as a motorist.