Defensive riding,

[grldtnr]

Oh, I am getting rather tired of this Aggressive defensive riding I have to adopt now, unfortunately on our busy roads is a necessatiy , I gave up on club cycling 20 odd yrs ago due to a serious RTC, not an accident as it was gross negligence on the part of the driver.
I have started club cycling again, but things have changed so much after the last 20 yrs, roads are 'traffic calmed' , cars are far bigger, driven faster, and to my mind with diminishing care, because there is too much traffic .
Is all this talk of 15 min cities , congestion charging , speed limits, and net zero causing this phenomenon, or mitigating it.
I am no lilly livered pansie cyclist, I have ridden all manner of bikes in all sorts of conditions ,both here and abroad.
Just what is going on out there.......I wish I knew?

 

[fossyant]

It's busy so I pick my times to go out on the road and avoid ertain busy ones (again after an RTC almost exactly 8 years ago). I'l lucky my commute can be done mainly off road and I have a choice of routes. I still ride some main roads - I commute on art of the A6 in Stockport, but it's quite wide. Road rides are usually done at lunch when WFH, or at weekends on quiet roads. I quite like my 'new to me' CX bike as I can avoid some busy roads with farm tracks, then jump back on the road without too much speed penalty with the gravel tyres. I have lost confidence and trust in drivers since my accient (which was bad).

 

[grldtnr]

It's busy so I pick my times to go out on the road and avoid ertain busy ones (again after an RTC almost exactly 8 years ago). I'l lucky my commute can be done mainly off road and I have a choice of routes. I still ride some main roads - I commute on art of the A6 in Stockport, but it's quite wide. Road rides are usually done at lunch when WFH, or at weekends on quiet roads. I quite like my 'new to me' CX bike as I can avoid some busy roads with farm tracks, then jump back on the road without too much speed penalty with the gravel tyres. I have lost confidence and trust in drivers since my accient (which was bad).

Mine was as well, a month in hospital then a further 5, before I got back to work on light duties, I was a cycling postie, so cycling is ,and was a big part of my life.
Unfortunately I live in the busy South East, of Essex, and have to use busy roads to get anywhere.
This time of year I don't want to go far, but come warmer weather ,once out on the lanes north of Chelmsford, it's ok , but getting out there is the problem.
I could load the car, but Sundays or cycling days are exactly that cycling days !
Once I am bike fit again, I'll be off on off - road routes, where I expect not to have to tussle with traffic.
I guess it's the same anywhere people live, but it seems our continental friends are in a better position, not bound in to the so car centric society that's prevalent here in Britain.

 

[ianrauk]

but it seems our continental friends are in a better position, not bound in to the so car centric society that's prevalent here in Britain.

Not so much only car centric here, its the same most of the world over. The world has been taken over by the car. In busy Spanish and French car centric cities, I have experienced that cyclists are shown far more respect then here in the UK.

 

[All uphill]

I'm sure my attitude would be different if I'd been injured, and I know I'm lucky to live in the south-west, in a town where cycling is common.

I find that so long as I am have good road positioning, give clear signals and avoid fast roads, people driving cars are generally considerate and patient around me.

I wear a woolly bobble hat and no lycra- maybe that's the reason

 

[HobbesOnTour]

its the same most of the world over. The world has been taken over by the car. In busy Spanish and French car centric cities, I have experienced that cyclists are shown far more respect then here in the UK.

I don't mean to be argumentative but it seems like you're contradicting yourself.

I can't speak for France, although there is a very strong cycling culture there, but in Spain (like NL) there is hefty legislation that backs up people on bikes.

What is particularly interesting to me is that in the big cities in Spain that I have cycled in not only are there mixed use paths to be shared between pedestrians and cyclists there are also impressive numbers of e-scooters to contend with - yet everyone just gets along.
A part of it is law, I'm sure, but a bigger part is cultural. Infrastructure, of course, is huge too, but not, in my experience, the main thing.

Changing culture is no easy task but it can be done.

I wear a woolly bobble hat and no lycra- maybe that's the reason

I'd tend to agree. It shouldn't make a difference, but humans being humans differences can be seized upon to assert a "them and us" mentality.

The only suggestion that I can add to make cycling more pleasurable is to not let the b******s grind us down. Look for the good driver, the respectful driver, give them acknowledgement. If everybody waits for the other guy to wave or smile no-one does.
As for the bad ones, either report them or forget about them. Don't let them live rent-free in our heads. There are tools available for that.

Thankfully, I've never been in a serious bike accident but I do wonder if, for survivors, there isn't an extra layer to contend with in the form of family who are worried. Every close pass, in a way, reminds us of an inherent selfishness within us? Such unpleasant thoughts can often remain hidden but ever present and can easily manifest in different emotions such as sudden stabs of fear or rage.

Also, I find a mirror goes a long way to removing the "lack of control" feeling that is not pleasant in busy traffic.

 

[Drago]

Sadly humans are lazy and their behaviour predictable. As with car drivers, a cyclist using a mirror will quickly come to use it as a substitute for proper observation unless correctly trained to the contrary.

To the typical rider the mirror brings a sense of security while in reality delivering the opposite as they become reliant upon it in place of proper obs drills. We are no different to car drivers in that regard.

 

[ianrauk]

I don't mean to be argumentative but it seems like you're contradicting yourself.

Not at all.
I don't think I explained myself to well. The UK is a very car centric country, along with France and Spain. However it's in the drivers mindset where is the problem. In France and Spain you very rarely get any sort of aggressive behaviour from drivers. Yet in the UK it's not taught to show cyclists (or pedestrians) any respect.
I

 

[grldtnr]

I totally agree with you, there appears to be an Aggressive mind set when motorists encounter cyclist, even towards motorcyclist to some extent, but it isn't so bad, main course of aggression towards 'bikers, is their ability to command road space and filter through traffic, drivers often get caught snarled up, when '*bikers can filter through.
Cyclist ,in general cannot maintain the speed that a 'biker can ,with ease , so gets pushed towards the margins.
Having to take the 'command' position with traffic islands that separate main roads ,is a major stress point for me, I know if I don't hog the line/ lane someone is going to force their way through, unnecessarily , when they are happy to tailgate the next car.
That doesn't appear to happen much on the continent, I think because the apportioned blame on the motorist.
* Bikers in this case ,are motorcyclist, , I have recently took this up, just so I can travel further for camping.

 

[grldtnr]

Sadly humans are lazy and their behaviour predictable. As with car drivers, a cyclist using a mirror will quickly come to use it as a substitute for proper observation unless correctly trained to the contrary.

To the typical rider the mirror brings a sense of security while in reality delivering the opposite as they become reliant upon it in place of proper obs drills. We are no different to car drivers in that regard.

As a former Dibble, you had the pleasure of being 'educated' in proper discipline with rear observation.
As a recumbent triker ,I do make extensive use of the mirrors fitted to my trike, ,it's very hard to maintain a good obvs routine without them.
When on the Single upwrong, I don't use them, I know someone is there ,but I do shoulder checks regularly, strangely, I do find it is easier to ride Continental style when abroad , having to look over my left shoulder, even if I can't move my head so easily to the left.
Ultimately, it does need a seismic shift in mentality towards more vulnerable road users, the tinkering with the Highway code giving Peds, and cyclist priority is a start, but that is going to be a long term change , it's going to take yonks to trickle through, especially with the quality of the driving instructors, which is low in my opinion, especially when I've seen them using mobile devices between jobs.

I have mentioned to others about the poor standard of driving, but this isn't a view shared, some claim it is highly regulated, something I think is lacking.

 

[GuyBoden]

Having been driven into last year and injured by a car driver, since then I've been less tolerant of near passes and dangerous driving generally. I'm shouting abuse more at bad drivers, who I feel are putting me at risk, when previously I'd have ignored them.

 

[All uphill]

Having to take the 'command' position with traffic islands that separate main roads ,is a major stress point for me, I know if I don't hog the line/ lane someone is going to force their way through, unnecessarily , when they are happy to tailgate the next car.

I'm interested in this.

Where does your stress come from at these points?

If you were driving a car would you feel stressed every time someone behind you had to drive a little slower than they would like?

"Hogging" the road is an interesting way of looking at things. When you see a person driving a car and using the centre of the road are they "hogging"?

It's taken me a few years since retirement to be comfortable that the road exists for me just as much as people in cars, and that it is reasonable for me to cycle in a way that keeps me safe. So far the people in cars have responded courteously.

 

[Drago]

As a former Dibble, you had the pleasure of being 'educated' in proper discipline with rear observation.

I was indoctrinated long before that. My Dad taught me to drive and he was, at the time, a RoSPA trainer/assessor, quite unusual for a non plod. If I was glancing in my mirrors to the detriment of looking properly, or using indicators as a substitute for proper obs, I got a steel rule across the back of my knuckles. After the end of a lesson my hands were bloody tatters, but the good habits became ingrained and the drills became second nature. As a consequence I passed my driving test first go with only a single 'minor', the joint lowest the test examiner had ever granted in his then 30 odd year career.

 

[Alex321]

Having to take the 'command' position with traffic islands that separate main roads ,is a major stress point for me, I know if I don't hog the line/ lane someone is going to force their way through, unnecessarily , when they are happy to tailgate the next car.

Don't let it be a stress point, just do it.

That is actually one advantage of the 20 limits in force in most of the places which have traffic islands in Wales, and many such places in Scotland and England. Other traffic is not being held up much by you on your bike, so you really don't need to feel stressed by holding them up.

 

[grldtnr]

I'm interested in this.

Where does your stress come from at these points?

If you were driving a car would you feel stressed every time someone behind you had to drive a little slower than they would like?

"Hogging" the road is an interesting way of looking at things. When you see a person driving a car and using the centre of the road are they "hogging"?

It's taken me a few years since retirement to be comfortable that the road exists for me just as much as people in cars, and that it is reasonable for me to cycle in a way that keeps me safe. So far the people in cars have responded courteously.

Actually moving out into the pinch points on a bicycle is the recommended thing to do, you are reducing the amount of room for a close pass by drivers, for they will take the advantage of you don't do this, it's annoying for them, but it's a life preserver for the cyclist.
I am waiting for them to upbraid me on that, I have over 50 yrs on the road ,ever since I took my RoSpa bike badge, I've been driving 40 of those years, also motorcycled,
My arguement is I know what I am about, I've been on the road longer than most have been out of pampers.
I am a cyclist, I afford other cyclist the same courtesy I expect for myself, I give them room.