Di2

[PaulSB]

This is where my Luddite kicks in. I am dead happy that I have a really slick, easy gear change and people start trying to complicate things by banging on about apps and other computer speak.

Can't we just charge it every so often so that it carries on working without having to over complicate things.

You can certainly charge it every now and again and you'll probably be OK on the derailleur and cassette.

The problem is you can't charge the shifter batteries. When those are fully discharged you simply won't be able to shift. It's essential to know the battery levels, to have replacements, etc. It happened to me in January and a guy I was riding with earlier this month. The Shimano app, if you can make it work, will tell you this. A Wahoo unit is vastly superior and I imagine a Garmin will be just as good.

Ignoring this is like setting off without a tube or patches.

 

[fossyant]

You can certainly charge it every now and again and you'll probably be OK on the derailleur and cassette.

The problem is you can't charge the shifter batteries. When those are fully discharged you simply won't be able to shift. It's essential to know the battery levels, to have replacements, etc. It happened to me in January and a guy I was riding with earlier this month. The Shimano app, if you can make it work, will tell you this. A Wahoo unit is vastly superior and I imagine a Garmin will be just as good.

Ignoring this is like setting off without a tube or patches.

I'll stick with my SIS downtube shifters.

 

[I like Skol]

I like to fix things.

Have yet to try electronic shifting of any kind, but often find myself riding along on my 10 speed Tiagra commuter bike, ticking up and down the gear shifts just to 'hear' (there's not much audible, just a change of ratio) the perfect movement. I just don't know how you can improve on that?

I have a ride buddy who will not swap out his Di2. He has had regular issues, at least once a year. I have told him he needs to ditch it, but he keeps spending £££ to get it 'fixed' until the next time.... It has spoilt his rides and even resulted in him hiring a bike in Spain after already paying to fly his own bike there.

Just why would you? Mechanical shifting is already damn good, it just doesn't need further complications.

 

[Chislenko]

You can certainly charge it every now and again and you'll probably be OK on the derailleur and cassette.

The problem is you can't charge the shifter batteries. When those are fully discharged you simply won't be able to shift. It's essential to know the battery levels, to have replacements, etc. It happened to me in January and a guy I was riding with earlier this month. The Shimano app, if you can make it work, will tell you this. A Wahoo unit is vastly superior and I imagine a Garmin will be just as good.

Ignoring this is like setting off without a tube or patches.

Yeah but this is what I don't get, where are all these apps, are people constantly looking at their phone or computer whilst out for a ride, which to me should be a welcome escape from the constant bombardment of info overload.

 

[HLaB]

I've hired bikes with Di2 an SRAM wireless and it's never made me want to change my Dura Ace mechanical.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

You can certainly charge it every now and again and you'll probably be OK on the derailleur and cassette.

The problem is you can't charge the shifter batteries. When those are fully discharged you simply won't be able to shift. It's essential to know the battery levels, to have replacements, etc. It happened to me in January and a guy I was riding with earlier this month. The Shimano app, if you can make it work, will tell you this. A Wahoo unit is vastly superior and I imagine a Garmin will be just as good.

Ignoring this is like setting off without a tube or patches.

That all sounds like too much arseache for what to me is a simple mode of transport. Even when I ride just for fun over longer distances I don't want to be worrying about checking an app first. I've never found mechanical shifting inadequate in any way and I wouldn't go back to electronic gears.

 

[YMFB]

The button batteries in my di2 shifters are original and have 2,000 miles, I think I’ve charged the derailleur no more than 6 times.

i regularly check the Garmin for the battery levels. I’ve never adjusted the gears, unlike my previous Ultegra and the SRAM Apex which have been adjusted many times.

 

[PaulSB]

To be clear, especially for the sceptics posting above. I avoided di2 for years as I was concerned by the many stories I heard in my club of people who suffered an electronic failure. I have one friend who was off the road for ten (10) days because of a failure, many others stuck in the wrong gear miles from home. After breaking three fingers in my right hand my consultant, an experienced cyclist, strongly suggested I consider di2. He was right, it has helped me.

My view of di2? It is simply the latest step forward in shifting technology. It shifts well. It is not the miracle system many claim. For the first three months I experienced many of the difficulties others had encountered. It confirmed all my fears of di2. Mine now works, flawlessly but it has left me with a very coloured opinion. When it works, great, when it doesn't, absolute disaster. My overall opinion is Shimano is a shite company who care little about their customers. If Shimano cared about the consumer everything I experienced could have been avoided. I am not and never will be a di2 or Shimano poster boy.

Yeah but this is what I don't get, where are all these apps, are people constantly looking at their phone or computer whilst out for a ride, which to me should be a welcome escape from the constant bombardment of info overload.

I'm genuinely trying to help you by passing on a bit of personal experience. I'm not trying to complicate or spoil anything. I hope you understand this. If what I'm passing on is gobbledygook I would respectfully suggest you speak to the LBS who sold you the bike and ask them for assistance. At the very least the LBS should have told you about the Shimano app. My last attempt:

There is an app provided by Shimano called E-TUBE and available via Playstore for Android users and Applestore for iPhone users. The app is used to set up, and if one wishes, alter the di2 settings. Most users will tell you after initial set up the app isn't needed and I agree with this. The exception being that the app should be a useful tool to allow one to quickly check battery levels. In my opinion checking the battery level is an important pre-ride check. One wouldn't set off on a car journey without first checking the fuel gauge? If you want to know your battery charge levels you can:

On the front shifter press both buttons at the same time. There will be a red/green light indicator. Red is triggered at 10%
On the rear cassette there is a very small, difficult to access, button you can press which will flash blue and then indicate green/orange/red for the different charge levels on the cassette and front mech

The Shimano app, which you run on your phone, can be used to check battery %. The app has to be reconnected to the bike each time you wish to use it. It is very unreliable and time consuming.

The third alternative is to connect a GPS head unit such as Wahoo or Garmin to the di2. I have no experience of Garmin but a Wahoo will tell you in ten seconds what the battery levels are and give a warning when levels drop. It is not a case of checking an app, phone or GPS unit every five minutes or information overload. It is no more time consuming than checking the fuel gauge on a car.

I have experienced several issues with battery charge levels, I had four rides I had to abandon before leaving the garage!!! I had a failure mid-ride. I helped out a buddy whose shifter battery failed mid-ride by giving him my spare batteries. He didn't know it was a good idea to carry spares or how to check the battery level. I have another friend who mid-ride had to divert ten miles to the nearest LBS to have a problem fixed. The owner smiled and replaced the shifter battery for him. This is real life. shoot happens.

These things happen. If one is properly prepared they are avoidable. Carrying spare batteries solves the problem on the road in about ten minutes. It's no different to running correct tyre pressures to minimise the possibility of a puncture. We all carry a tube. I haven't used one in years. I carry batteries, I'll probably never need one again until the day I leave my spare battery or tube at home.

 

[Chislenko]

To be clear, especially for the sceptics posting above. I avoided di2 for years as I was concerned by the many stories I heard in my club of people who suffered an electronic failure. I have one friend who was off the road for ten (10) days because of a failure, many others stuck in the wrong gear miles from home. After breaking three fingers in my right hand my consultant, an experienced cyclist, strongly suggested I consider di2. He was right, it has helped me.

My view of di2? It is simply the latest step forward in shifting technology. It shifts well. It is not the miracle system many claim. For the first three months I experienced many of the difficulties others had encountered. It confirmed all my fears of di2. Mine now works, flawlessly but it has left me with a very coloured opinion. When it works, great, when it doesn't, absolute disaster. My overall opinion is Shimano is a shite company who care little about their customers. If Shimano cared about the consumer everything I experienced could have been avoided. I am not and never will be a di2 or Shimano poster boy.



I'm genuinely trying to help you by passing on a bit of personal experience. I'm not trying to complicate or spoil anything. I hope you understand this. If what I'm passing on is gobbledygook I would respectfully suggest you speak to the LBS who sold you the bike and ask them for assistance. At the very least the LBS should have told you about the Shimano app. My last attempt:

There is an app provided by Shimano called E-TUBE and available via Playstore for Android users and Applestore for iPhone users. The app is used to set up, and if one wishes, alter the di2 settings. Most users will tell you after initial set up the app isn't needed and I agree with this. The exception being that the app should be a useful tool to allow one to quickly check battery levels. In my opinion checking the battery level is an important pre-ride check. One wouldn't set off on a car journey without first checking the fuel gauge? If you want to know your battery charge levels you can:

On the front shifter press both buttons at the same time. There will be a red/green light indicator. Red is triggered at 10%
On the rear cassette there is a very small, difficult to access, button you can press which will flash blue and then indicate green/orange/red for the different charge levels on the cassette and front mech

The Shimano app, which you run on your phone, can be used to check battery %. The app has to be reconnected to the bike each time you wish to use it. It is very unreliable and time consuming.

The third alternative is to connect a GPS head unit such as Wahoo or Garmin to the di2. I have no experience of Garmin but a Wahoo will tell you in ten seconds what the battery levels are and give a warning when levels drop. It is not a case of checking an app, phone or GPS unit every five minutes or information overload. It is no more time consuming than checking the fuel gauge on a car.

I have experienced several issues with battery charge levels, I had four rides I had to abandon before leaving the garage!!! I had a failure mid-ride. I helped out a buddy whose shifter battery failed mid-ride by giving him my spare batteries. He didn't know it was a good idea to carry spares or how to check the battery level. I have another friend who mid-ride had to divert ten miles to the nearest LBS to have a problem fixed. The owner smiled and replaced the shifter battery for him. This is real life. shoot happens.

These things happen. If one is properly prepared they are avoidable. Carrying spare batteries solves the problem on the road in about ten minutes. It's no different to running correct tyre pressures to minimise the possibility of a puncture. We all carry a tube. I haven't used one in years. I carry batteries, I'll probably never need one again until the day I leave my spare battery or tube at home.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. When I bought my cycle computer I opted for a Bryton which for my limited knowledge / patience levels was the most straightforward to use.

The new bike is an e-bike and comes with a Mahle computer fitted as standard so having not read up on it, it may or may not connect to the Di2. The bike does come with a replacement adapter if you want to change to Garmin but my old Bryton won't fit it.

Until I get more "savvy" with it I will just charge it every so often. I expect there will be an app for the Mahle but haven't investigated as yet.

Apologies if I sounded ungrateful for your assistance it just seems in this day and age that before you do anything you need an app!

I presume soon there will be one to tell people when to go to the loo🙂

 

[Yellow Saddle]

To be clear, especially for the sceptics posting above. I avoided di2 for years as I was concerned by the many stories I heard in my club of people who suffered an electronic failure. I have one friend who was off the road for ten (10) days because of a failure, many others stuck in the wrong gear miles from home. After breaking three fingers in my right hand my consultant, an experienced cyclist, strongly suggested I consider di2. He was right, it has helped me.

My view of di2? It is simply the latest step forward in shifting technology. It shifts well. It is not the miracle system many claim. For the first three months I experienced many of the difficulties others had encountered. It confirmed all my fears of di2. Mine now works, flawlessly but it has left me with a very coloured opinion. When it works, great, when it doesn't, absolute disaster. My overall opinion is Shimano is a shite company who care little about their customers. If Shimano cared about the consumer everything I experienced could have been avoided. I am not and never will be a di2 or Shimano poster boy.



I'm genuinely trying to help you by passing on a bit of personal experience. I'm not trying to complicate or spoil anything. I hope you understand this. If what I'm passing on is gobbledygook I would respectfully suggest you speak to the LBS who sold you the bike and ask them for assistance. At the very least the LBS should have told you about the Shimano app. My last attempt:

There is an app provided by Shimano called E-TUBE and available via Playstore for Android users and Applestore for iPhone users. The app is used to set up, and if one wishes, alter the di2 settings. Most users will tell you after initial set up the app isn't needed and I agree with this. The exception being that the app should be a useful tool to allow one to quickly check battery levels. In my opinion checking the battery level is an important pre-ride check. One wouldn't set off on a car journey without first checking the fuel gauge? If you want to know your battery charge levels you can:

On the front shifter press both buttons at the same time. There will be a red/green light indicator. Red is triggered at 10%
On the rear cassette there is a very small, difficult to access, button you can press which will flash blue and then indicate green/orange/red for the different charge levels on the cassette and front mech

The Shimano app, which you run on your phone, can be used to check battery %. The app has to be reconnected to the bike each time you wish to use it. It is very unreliable and time consuming.

The third alternative is to connect a GPS head unit such as Wahoo or Garmin to the di2. I have no experience of Garmin but a Wahoo will tell you in ten seconds what the battery levels are and give a warning when levels drop. It is not a case of checking an app, phone or GPS unit every five minutes or information overload. It is no more time consuming than checking the fuel gauge on a car.

I have experienced several issues with battery charge levels, I had four rides I had to abandon before leaving the garage!!! I had a failure mid-ride. I helped out a buddy whose shifter battery failed mid-ride by giving him my spare batteries. He didn't know it was a good idea to carry spares or how to check the battery level. I have another friend who mid-ride had to divert ten miles to the nearest LBS to have a problem fixed. The owner smiled and replaced the shifter battery for him. This is real life. shoot happens.

These things happen. If one is properly prepared they are avoidable. Carrying spare batteries solves the problem on the road in about ten minutes. It's no different to running correct tyre pressures to minimise the possibility of a puncture. We all carry a tube. I haven't used one in years. I carry batteries, I'll probably never need one again until the day I leave my spare battery or tube at home.

Hear hear. Whilst all of us older folk regularly grumble to our mates about new-fangled things - think of your opinion of new music, the latest jeans style or those earbud things - most of us realise that the world evolves. Take it or leave it, but things evolve. And, evolution is not immediate revolution. Even Di2 has evolved over the last 10 years. But downtube shifters are still available if that floats your boat.

The gripe about apps is just that - grumbling to your cycling mates around the "over my dead body" theme whilst happily ordering groceries via Amazon Alexa, using a remote control to change TV channels (that devices is just a single-application "App" after all) and checking the time on a digital watch that needs charging ever so often. Even typing on here invokes a spelling App.

We can draw up a matrix of pros and cons of mechanical vs digital and debate the merits of each entry, but that would be far too clinical. A generalised bitch session seems far more fun.

 

[Chislenko]

Hear hear. Whilst all of us older folk regularly grumble to our mates about new-fangled things - think of your opinion of new music, the latest jeans style or those earbud things - most of us realise that the world evolves. Take it or leave it, but things evolve. And, evolution is not immediate revolution. Even Di2 has evolved over the last 10 years. But downtube shifters are still available if that floats your boat.

The gripe about apps is just that - grumbling to your cycling mates around the "over my dead body" theme whilst happily ordering groceries via Amazon Alexa, using a remote control to change TV channels (that devices is just a single-application "App" after all) and checking the time on a digital watch that needs charging ever so often. Even typing on here invokes a spelling App.

We can draw up a matrix of pros and cons of mechanical vs digital and debate the merits of each entry, but that would be far too clinical. A generalised bitch session seems far more fun.

I presume that was directed at me. For the record I love Di2 as a means of changing gear I am just not up to scratch with the app side of things and wasn't aware that you had to do all this stuff.

My simple, pre technology boom mind, just assumed you charged it every so often and life would be ok.

 

[Dogtrousers]

As a die hard lover of electronic gizmos and data I really fancy the idea of electronic shifting and integrating it with my GPS and getting data on use of ratios etc. and cobbling together some code to do some utterly pointless analysis.

I might fit electronic shifting sometime but I'm also a lover of my old steel framed bike and I'm not sure whether I'd struggle to find good locations for batteries and junction boxes and whatnot.

 

[Binky]

I smile at those who haven't even tried Di2 etc say it's not for them! Maybe it's not but until you try it you won't know.

When riding I can see which gear I'm in(I like that feature), get instant battery readings etc. Post ride you can even see how many gear changes etc you did and which gears were used should you want to. Not something I bother with but it's there if you want it. All this done with Wahoo computer and Wahoo app both of which are excellent. Assume Garmin etc have similar, not tried.

Anyone who runs out of battery so gear changes stop working, initially you lose ability to change front mech then eventually lose rear as well only have themselves to blame. That's user error not a fault with equipment.

As PaulSB says, I'm not trying to get anyone to convert to electronic shifting but if you are considering it it's best to have accurate first hand information not rumours from someone who's not tried it or just read something on the internet.

My Di2 is old version so I have a single battery in seat tube(crap design from Canyon, to replace battery you need to remove bottom bracket!). I don't have shifter batteries like new versions do.

All the above are the technical bits, what matters is how it is when riding and for me it's brilliant. Flawless gear changes every time. Can change gear under load on a steep climb easily should you need to. The extremely rare need to index gears is simple and can be done out on road in seconds.
Again above can be done on mechanical although changing under load definitely not as good as Di2 but Di2 is just smoother, easier and troublefree. I've had far less trouble with Di2 than mechanical.

Finally whilst we maybe shouldn't copy everything the pros do, I don't think there are any these days who don't have electronic shifting so must be a reason there aside from marketing.

 

[fossyant]

I've hired bikes with Di2 an SRAM wireless and it's never made me want to change my Dura Ace mechanical.

I have DA 7400 and it will outlast the new stuff. I haven't changed the original shifter cables in 35 years as they are made to a much higher standard than the usual stuff.

 

[Webbo2]

I have a bike with DA mechanical and have had the cables fray inside the shifter. Whilst it’s very good it’s not as as nice as Di2 for shifting.
I was quite content with my DA mechanical then the loverly Mrs W said why don’t you get a new bike with some of my inheritance from my mum. So new bike was purchased with Di2 and it’s great but the only problem is I seem to be changing gear all the time😂 none of this leave it in the current gear and grind it out anymore.
I wasn’t aware until reading this thread I could get the battery life on my wahoo. So I watched a video on how to do it but having a short attention span for all things I.t. I needed to watch it whilst doing it.
So having to put the bike against the French windows so I was near enough to get a signal for my iPad then hold my phone whilst operating the wahoo and clicking the shifters so as to wake them up. All this was a bit taxing so I might need a lie down instead of going for a bike ride.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣