Dilemma

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vickster

Legendary Member
I also think people need to remember to take VAT into account. That £999 bike is really only an £830 bike.
i know what you meant. I also know that bike shop owners get frustrated when given parts to fit bought online that a) they could have supplied at the same price, and b) are not compatible anyway.
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My LBS is fine with it. They just charge a fiver bolt on fee
 

winjim

Smash the cistern
My LBS is fine with it. They just charge a fiver bolt on fee
Yeah, my LBS will do it, let's face it they have little choice these days, it's the compatibility issue they get frustrated with. Buy direct from them, they'll price match and guarantee compatibility.
 

screenman

Legendary Member
Bikes always seem over-priced to me - you can get a Focus or similar for 20 to 25x the price of a mid-spec bike, and no amount of economies of scale overcome the fact that the car has about 140x as much material in it including all sorts of exotic elements in even the most basic car. I fail to see how a few welded tubes, a couple of wheels, some bearings, two wheels and some springs and levers can be £800. I know 'BSOs' are bobbins, but the cost differential in using slightly better aluminium or steel, and slightly better components, does not add up to £650.

I suspect that the bike manufacturers are controlling price. Not in an illegal way of course - there will be no contract saying you can't discount the bikes without permission, but I would speculate that if you did that, you might find that when you re-ordered stock they'd not have any to send you, or your credit limit would be reduced so you'd have to pay upfront, or something like that. In doing this they are maximising profits for themselves, not the retailers. So if you are a bike manufacturer, and you can make a bike for £100, you can sell it direct to the customer for £800, or you can sell it in to a bike shop for £600 and the bike shop can sell if for £800 (of which £134 is VAT, so they would make a profit of £66, less cost of sales, less tax) I don't know what the margin is - it's probably not that tight - but I would bet that the huge majority of the profit is going to the manufacturer, and they are allowing the shop just enough to keep them in business, because they need the shops to sell the bikes to consumers. That's the only model that makes sense economically.

The idea of running a business is to make money, I am sure you do the same with yours. Bike manufacturers unlike car makers often only get one bite of the cherry.

There was a tale going around many years ago the Austin made more selling a headlight for a mini than they did selling a mini.
 

KneesUp

Guru
The idea of running a business is to make money, I am sure you do the same with yours. Bike manufacturers unlike car makers often only get one bite of the cherry.

There was a tale going around many years ago the Austin made more selling a headlight for a mini than they did selling a mini.
I wasn't disputing that the aim of most businesses is to make money - that was my point - that the bike manufacturers maximise profit for them, and leave just enough for the retailers to survive. Whilst it's true that bike manufacturers are less likely to make money on parts and servicing, there is also the thing that I would guess that the average person who has bought an £800+ bike new has bought more than one - perhaps a road bike and a mountain bike, for different uses - whereas relatively few people buy, say, a Golf GTI and a Touareg.

Ford couldn't work out how Austin was making money on the Mini when it was launched, so they bought one, took it apart and costed it all - and concluded each one was sold at a loss (of around £30 per car, IIRC). I've found this - from 1973, when the car had been on sale for 14 years - saying that BLMC was still making a loss on each car sold - https://classics.honestjohn.co.uk/news/archive/1973-10/mini-still-sold-at-a-loss-blmc-says/ but that the profit from spares made it pretty much a break-even product. No wonder they didn't seem to care how badly stuff was made!
 

vickster

Legendary Member
Yeah, my LBS will do it, let's face it they have little choice these days, it's the compatibility issue they get frustrated with. Buy direct from them, they'll price match and guarantee compatibility.
I’m able to buy the right chain and cassette
 

lane

Veteran
Sometimes buying your own kit online means you get exactly what you want. Then if necesary get the mechanic to fit it. If you leave it to the LBS they might not have or put on exactly what you wanted.
 

Gravity Aided

Legendary Member
Location
Land of Lincoln
I know you all have a better standard of living than the States, but I can hardly imagine paying what you do for a bicycle. In many cases, the price you pay sounds more like the price I would pay, but in dollars, not pounds. For that, I would definitely prefer the shop A experience. We pass this way but once, no sense in going third class. It's more money, but what is money when you have to pay for that price with aggravation and possibly peril from a poorly built bicycle? When I ran photographic stores, we made but little on the cameras, and a lot on the lenses. When the point and shoot cameras came along, we had to make our whole money on the camera sale, because we sold the camera, not accessories as before.
 

burntoutbanger

Veteran
Location
Devon
One of the best bike shops local to me doesn't sell bikes at all just services, repairs and parts. His repair work is top notch and his prices on parts while not quite matching internet pricing are still pretty competitive. With him not selling bikes you never feel any pressure to upgrade or any guilt if taking in a bike bought elsewhere to be worked on.

I'm lucky in that there's another bike shop just further up that does sell bikes and has lots out on display, their work also seems to a high standard though they are also a little pricier.

The first shop is my shop of choice but I'm happy to use the second if the first is closed/on holiday.
 

screenman

Legendary Member
I know you all have a better standard of living than the States, but I can hardly imagine paying what you do for a bicycle. In many cases, the price you pay sounds more like the price I would pay, but in dollars, not pounds. For that, I would definitely prefer the shop A experience. We pass this way but once, no sense in going third class. It's more money, but what is money when you have to pay for that price with aggravation and possibly peril from a poorly built bicycle? When I ran photographic stores, we made but little on the cameras, and a lot on the lenses. When the point and shoot cameras came along, we had to make our whole money on the camera sale, because we sold the camera, not accessories as before.

There is not much between the £ and the $ now unfortunately, after carriage on the goods I import along with import duty I normally reckon what I pay in $ is the same in £ when it arrives in my office.
 

Johnno260

Veteran
Location
East Sussex
My LBS decided high street was too expensive and he didn’t enjoy selling, he closed shop and is a mobile bike mechanic now, he isn’t the cheapest, but he is honest and I trust him.

Like I said sometimes service and trust is worth the extra expense.
 
D

Deleted member 26715

Guest
I know you all have a better standard of living than the States,
Having spent a bit of time over there I would argue that we have a better standard of living, but what we do have is a culture of being screwed over on goods, price inflation as the item is UK bound, virtually all items cost more in the UK than is other countries (broad sweeping statement, but seems to be true)
 
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