Disc brakes to be allowed for pro teams - test period

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

It's the industry that is pushing for it, and if the pro teams like it it will become the normal just like most things in life. You can understand why the industry wants it as its profits led.
It would be interesting to fast forward 5 years and have a look at the scene then

Indeed. I can't wait until Di2 hydraulic braked bikes reach a slightly more affordable price range I would have one now if it wasn't for the potential (like in MTB) for standards to change.

i doubt 9mm QR's will remain standard on disc road setups for too long, when 15mm maxle is irrefutably a nicer and stiffer riding experience, but I'm confident there will be another latest and greatest before long.

 

[w00hoo_kent]

The interesting thing will be what happens in the peloton when it is wet. In the dry the rim brakes are more likely to lock wheels than the disks, riders on disk brakes should have more control to avoid a crashing rim braked bike in front of them. I expect a lot of blaming the new thing. Agreed the neutral spares issue is interesting. Which events does August/September give us?

 

[172traindriver]

Indeed. I can't wait until Di2 hydraulic braked bikes reach a slightly more affordable price range I would have one now if it wasn't for the potential (like in MTB) for standards to change.

i doubt 9mm QR's will remain standard on disc road setups for too long, when 15mm maxle is irrefutably a nicer and stiffer riding experience, but I'm confident there will be another latest and greatest before long.

Like most things once the early adopters get on board and it starts to become normal prices become realistic. Electronic shifting for example, everyone I know that has it loves it, but then before I go for that, do I wait for disc brakes to become affordable also

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

The interesting thing will be what happens in the peloton when it is wet. In the dry the rim brakes are more likely to lock wheels than the disks, riders on disk brakes should have more control to avoid a crashing rim braked bike in front of them. I expect a lot of blaming the new thing. Agreed the neutral spares issue is interesting. Which events does August/September give us?

In terms of service there would need to be 2 uniform things, disc size and axle standard.

Both mavic and shimano produce disc specific road wheels and both provide neutral servicing.

 

[Apollonius]

Even the Universal brakes on my 1959 Sid Mottram have the power to send me flying over the handlebars if I get the braking wrong - and I have the scars to prove it, so I doubt tis is all about improving braking. I think this is more to do with reducing the rolling weight of wheels by making carbon rims work properly without the need for a grafted-on alloy braking band.
Cynically, of course, it is an excellent way of making the world's racing bikes obsolete overnight, so we all have to buy new ones.

 

[w00hoo_kent]

Even the Universal brakes on my 1959 Sid Mottram have the power to send me flying over the handlebars if I get the braking wrong - and I have the scars to prove it, so I doubt tis is all about improving braking. I think this is more to do with reducing the rolling weight of wheels by making carbon rims work properly without the need for a grafted-on alloy braking band.
Cynically, of course, it is an excellent way of making the world's racing bikes obsolete overnight, so we all have to buy new ones.

Says the man riding a 1959 Sid Mottram! What you may get is another split in classes with classic (i.e. Pre disk, pre electronics) becoming a thing. New stuff doesn't make old stuff stop working.

 

[Citius]

Even the Universal brakes on my 1959 Sid Mottram have the power to send me flying over the handlebars if I get the braking wrong - and I have the scars to prove it, so I doubt tis is all about improving braking. I think this is more to do with reducing the rolling weight of wheels by making carbon rims work properly without the need for a grafted-on alloy braking band.
Cynically, of course, it is an excellent way of making the world's racing bikes obsolete overnight, so we all have to buy new ones.

Nothing to do with wheel weight, because what weight you might lose at the rim is probably replaced at the hub, with the additional weight of disc and hub mounts.

 

[HF2300]

Interesting fact - brakes don't make bikes quicker. You only have to look at CX to see how much difference the use of discs has made to the racing (ie none).

Be interesting to look at whether that's the case, or whether discs haven't made a difference because of other factors. Generally speaking if you can brake harder (decelerate quicker) you can stay at maximum velocity longer and therefore cover a given distance in less time or a greater distance in the same time; so if there isn't another limiting factor you'll be quicker.

No mention of the big spinning things called wheels or chainrings then?

Well ... the fact that there are already hazards isn't a reason to add an extra hazard, if hazard it be...

Not really. Every time disc brakes are mentioned the same overdone arguments against them are regurgitated. I'm surprised nobody has tried the "too much force for the spokes" one again.

Funnily enough they have mentioned spoke strength, at least in the Velonews article. Whether the arguments are overdone or correct or not, as with all these things there are some stakeholders who feel one way, and some stakeholders who feel another. Trialling should show the validity of the arguments one way or another. If none of the safety arguments turn out to be valid or deal breakers, the technical issues will be resolved pretty quickly if it's in the industry's interest.

It's the industry that is pushing for it, and if the pro teams like it, it will become the normal just like most things in life. You can understand why the industry wants it as it's profits led....Like most things once the early adopters get on board and it starts to become normal prices become realistic.

That's probably closest to the mark!

 

[Citius]

Be interesting to look at whether that's the case, or whether discs haven't made a difference because of other factors. Generally speaking if you can brake harder (decelerate quicker) you can stay at maximum velocity longer and therefore cover a given distance in less time or a greater distance in the same time; so if there isn't another limiting factor you'll be quicker.

The limiting factor has always been the tyre not losing grip on the road surface. Given that it is already possible to lock a wheel (losing that grip) with caliper brakes, I don't personally see that as a huge benefit. The ability to brake harder will just result in more loss of grip, unless tyre technology dramatically improves to compensate. Having said that, the move towards wider tyres will give a wider contact patch, which will offset some of that.

 

[Crackle]

I recall the arguments when indexed gears came in. A few pro's expressed concern that their rivals would hear the gear click as they changed and know they were preparing to sprint past. Seems disc brakes are causing similar division. The thing I find about disc brakes on road bikes is they're fugly, really fugly. Apart from that...

 

[w00hoo_kent]

I'd be quite surprised if the pro peloton finds much advantage in going to disk. It would be fair to assume that the top riders are already pretty hot at bike control and so are already braking at the limit of what their tyres can do. As mentioned, disk brakes aren't likely to change that. The kit they are riding is expertly and regularly attended to by their mechanics so will be at the peak of its efficiency and we've all agreed elsewhere a well maintained and set up rim brake is no worse than a disk. As I said above, the only time it'll be interesting is when it gets wet and the vagaries of rim brakes no longer become an issue. It will also allow them to change wheel design, which may be beneficial for carbon rims.

The benefits are going to be lower down the rankings, club racers who are doing all their own maintenance and aren't cycle control gods. Every day riders who are buying what's available and start to get affordable hydraulic road brakes on their bikes. Riders who are riding in all conditions regularly and find they have better braking in poor conditions now.

I get the feeling at the top, it'll all be a bit anti-climatic but some prima donnas will have a new thing to blame poor performances on.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Disc brakes don't allow you to brake harder. The maximum stopping deceleration you can achieve on a standard safety bike (i.e. all our bikes) is about 0.6G and that is very adequately achieved with coaster or rim brakes. The limiting factor is NOT the force the brake can apply but the overturning moment of the bike IN other words, the front wheel cannot lock up (n dry asphalt) because the bike will endo before the wheel locks up. We see evidence of that on motorcycles too, where a skilled rider can do a stoppie. If the wheel could lock up, you won't be able to do a stoppie. The back wheel easily locks up with any type of brake as you all know. All a disc adds to the rear is better heat dissipation on long descends and more predictable modulation. Note that increased brake force is actually a very negative thing to have on a rear brake.

A disc brake improves wet weather braking up to a point where traction becomes the limiting factor.

On dry asphalt the tyre is never the weakest link, overturning momentum is.

Spoke strength is more than adequate. At maximu deceleration of 0.6G, spoke tension in a 32-spoke front wheel increases by about 5%. The overall tension remains constant because only very second spoke increases tension. The other spokes all lose tension. IN other words, the trailing spokes gain 5% tension and the pushing spokes lose 5% tension. The wheel sees no increase in tension. The 5% - and that is at maximum - is far, far more than the margin in the spoke's tensile strength. Besides, mountain bikes have been using disc brakes for decades, no-one mentions that?

Hydraulic disc brakes will be the default choice for high-end bikes very shortly. Cable-disc brakes are a very poor choice because the cables are long and full of friction and the experience is awful. Hydraulic is like butter and stays that way through the bike's life.

Discs require a bit more maintenance, care and expertise, but that will come with time.

Shimano may be pushing the trend, but the Shimano solution is very, very good. The calipers are superb, the oil (rather than DOT fluid) makes bleeding a cinch and the small 140mm Freeza discs work like a charm, even with extreme brake dragging down a pass.

My next bike will have hydraulic discs.... Di2 can wait.

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

Funnily enough they have mentioned spoke strength, at least in the Velonews article. Whether the arguments are overdone or correct or not, as with all these things there are some stakeholders who feel one way, and some stakeholders who feel another. Trialling should show the validity of the arguments one way or another. If none of the safety arguments turn out to be valid or deal breakers, the technical issues will be resolved pretty quickly if it's in the industry's interest.

I don't care if there are stakeholders or marketing teams lining up to cash in on a disc brake boom. Nor do I care if the pros use them or not (besides disc systems inevitably becoming a bit cheaper, which isn't a deal breaker for me)

What I care about as a consumer and ultimately a tech fan, is buying bikes to the spec I desire. And I've desired hydraulic brakes since I first used them many years ago.

 

[mustang1]

I love riding my MTB with hydro disks. So smooth, such modulation, so powerful. And they're only bottom if the range shimano.

Any bike I buy from now on will have disks as a minimum. I've even contemplated moving from a drop bar bike to flat bars just so I can have hydro disks (yes I know you can get hydro on drop bars but I'm uncertain how reliable they are and probably expensive too).

 

[Learnincurve]

This is a unbelievably stupid idea and my partner who is a cycling event medic also rolled his eyes to the heavens and started to stockpile burn medicine when we first heard about it.

The main worry is the discs getting red hot which will not only burn people in the event of a Peleton crash but there is also a serious risk of bikes catching fire, (it's not a concern when it's a race where riders won't be in a pack like a downhill MTB race,) Not only in the event of a group crash but also if riders make a mistake in the peleton and get the wrong part of their own bike too close to the discs of another in a decent. There are potentially quite a few things on a bike that could go up and go up fast, some chain lubes are flammable, a lot of tyre sealants, degreasers and grease are also. Carbon actually needs to get quite hot before it catches, but that's irrelevant really as the tyres and seat posts will explode long before the frame starts to burn .

In order for this to work, there needs to be strict regulations on what chemicals people are allowed to use on bikes.