Disney's snow white comes under fire

[matticus]

Bradbury* is a different kind of writer to the others mentioned. There is more of a fable-like style to his stories - he doesn't do hard science (like Asimov Clarke etc), or detailed satire/dystopian/alt-history stuff.
(N recently had the audiobook of 20,000 Leagues .... Every time I walked in there was some detailed nautical or engineering detail being spouted. Jeez, just tell me a story!)
I found Animal Farm a real chore - I already knew what the basic point was, and he just seemed to take forever to get it across. I can still see why it has the reputation it has - for one thing, it was quite innovative at the time, just looks a bit dated from a 21stC viewpoint.
(and why does any of this have to be so competitive?? "ohhhh, but he's not as good as Gogol ... ")


People like different stuff - fortunately there are plenty of books in the world ...

*

Spoiler: Bradbury footnote

I will defend him while there is breath in my lungs, owing to writing the first "proper" time travel story that I ever read. Once you've seen Back To The Future (I) and read A Sound of Thunder, there is nothing else worth bothering with.

 

[Edwardoka]

Bradbury* is a different kind of writer to the others mentioned. There is more of a fable-like style to his stories - he doesn't do hard science (like Asimov Clarke etc), or detailed satire/dystopian/alt-history stuff.
(N recently had the audiobook of 20,000 Leagues .... Every time I walked in there was some detailed nautical or engineering detail being spouted. Jeez, just tell me a story!)
I found Animal Farm a real chore - I already knew what the basic point was, and he just seemed to take forever to get it across. I can still see why it has the reputation it has - for one thing, it was quite innovative at the time, just looks a bit dated from a 21stC viewpoint.
(and why does any of this have to be so competitive?? "ohhhh, but he's not as good as Gogol ... ")


People like different stuff - fortunately there are plenty of books in the world ...

*

Spoiler: Bradbury footnote

I will defend him while there is breath in my lungs, owing to writing the first "proper" time travel story that I ever read. Once you've seen Back To The Future (I) and read A Sound of Thunder, there is nothing else worth bothering with.

If 20,000 leagues under the sea bored you, you definitely don't want to read Moby Dick.
I follow the @MobyDickatSea account on Twitter which randomly posts out-of-context quotes from the book. Far more entertaining than the book could ever be.

The core point of Animal Farm isn't "the USSR is bad", it's that USSR-style totalitarianism creeps up on a society incrementally.
The steady drip of erosion is the point - the horror is meant to grow on the reader.
The problem is that we all already know the main story beats and the big quotes and the reveal at the end so I can see why one would think it plodding and dated. Difficult to find meaning in the journey if you already know how it ends.

You're fine to like Bradbury, like I say, I loved The Pedestrian - it was self-contained, it was evocative (hell, every time I go out after dark I'm reminded of it), but most importantly the story, setting and message existed in harmony. That's where F451 fell down for me.

I was going to recommend Michael Crichton's works as cautionary tales about technology but on review I have found his early works problematic and he has been Cancelled.

 

[matticus]

I was going to recommend Michael Crichton's works as cautionary tales about technology but on review I have found his early works problematic and he has been Cancelled.

Chuck 'em on the bonfire with the Snow Whites.

 

[Ian H]

The original tales were properly Grimm. No-one needs Disney's bowdlerised saccharine versions.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Why's Crichton cancelled? It's years since I read Jurassic Park etc, so I'll have forgotten most of it, problematic bits included. I don't think he's a great writer; entertaining but more an ideas writer. My main complaint is it's basically the same story of tech gone wrong; JP, WestWorld, the time travel one. I enjoyed them at the time though.

I liked Ray Bradbury when I was much younger, and read a lot of John Wyndham too. Ray B was a lifelong friend of another hero of mine, Ray Harryhausen, the special effects guy. They were mates for about 60 years.

 

[Edwardoka]

Why's Crichton cancelled? It's years since I read Jurassic Park etc, so I'll have forgotten most of it, problematic bits included.

It's probably just my own personal bugbear , in the same way that I got outraged when GTA Online introduced an event where players were split into two teams: truck drivers and cyclists. The objective is to kill the cyclists. Yet I felt less outraged about other mechanics which are similarly abhorrent.

Anyway, why I've cancelled Crichton:
There's a scene in the Andromeda Strain where one of the scientists sees a blinking alarm light which triggers a photosensitive seizure and makes them lose bladder control, all in the pursuit of adding unnecessary drama in an already tense situation.
There's an argument that Crichton was going for a positive portrayal "despite their epilepsy this person is a very accomplished scientist" only to completely undermine them in a moment of tension.

His next novel features someone who, after a car crash has seizures and commits acts of terrible explosive violence during post-ictal blackouts.

One negative portrayal of epilepsy, Yuck. Twice in his first two books is Yikes. He later rowed back on that, but as someone who was a qualified doctor he should have known better than to use health conditions in this way. It was a different time, I suppose.

Also as a very small child I was traumatised by seeing Yul Brynner's face fall off - a memory I suppressed for decades. Strike three.

Cancelled.

 

[Deleted User]

It's probably just my own personal bugbear , in the same way that I got outraged when GTA Online introduced an event where players were split into two teams: truck drivers and cyclists. The objective is to kill the cyclists. Yet I felt less outraged about other mechanics which are similarly abhorrent.

Anyway, why I've cancelled Crichton:
There's a scene in the Andromeda Strain where one of the scientists sees a blinking alarm light which triggers a photosensitive seizure and makes them lose bladder control, all in the pursuit of adding unnecessary drama in an already tense situation.
There's an argument that Crichton was going for a positive portrayal "despite their epilepsy this person is a very accomplished scientist" only to completely undermine them in a moment of tension.

His next novel features someone who, after a car crash has seizures and commits acts of terrible explosive violence during post-ictal blackouts.

One negative portrayal of epilepsy, Yuck. Twice in his first two books is Yikes. He later rowed back on that, but as someone who was a qualified doctor he should have known better than to use health conditions in this way. It was a different time, I suppose.

Also as a very small child I was traumatised by seeing Yul Brynner's face fall off - a memory I suppressed for decades. Strike three.

Cancelled.

You need help!

 

[Edwardoka]

You need help!

Yes, I know. I'm in the process of getting it. What's your excuse?

 

[Deleted User]

Yes, I know. I'm in the process of getting it. What's your excuse?

I'm not the one with issues.

 

[Edwardoka]

I'm not the one with issues.

For someone who claims not to care about this Snow White story you appear to be quite invested in it. Nearly 20 posts! That's an awful lot of not caring. The word "frightened" was used on more than one occasion, although you subsequently backed down from what was clearly a moment of self-awareness.

It's a terrible thing, the fear of becoming irrelevant. That the world is becoming an incomprehensible place that is passing you by.
I grapple with it regularly, in between my bouts of cancelling deceased sci-fi authors.

 

[classic33]

It's probably just my own personal bugbear , in the same way that I got outraged when GTA Online introduced an event where players were split into two teams: truck drivers and cyclists. The objective is to kill the cyclists. Yet I felt less outraged about other mechanics which are similarly abhorrent.

Anyway, why I've cancelled Crichton:
There's a scene in the Andromeda Strain where one of the scientists sees a blinking alarm light which triggers a photosensitive seizure and makes them lose bladder control, all in the pursuit of adding unnecessary drama in an already tense situation.
There's an argument that Crichton was going for a positive portrayal "despite their epilepsy this person is a very accomplished scientist" only to completely undermine them in a moment of tension.

His next novel features someone who, after a car crash has seizures and commits acts of terrible explosive violence during post-ictal blackouts.

One negative portrayal of epilepsy, Yuck. Twice in his first two books is Yikes. He later rowed back on that, but as someone who was a qualified doctor he should have known better than to use health conditions in this way. It was a different time, I suppose.

Also as a very small child I was traumatised by seeing Yul Brynner's face fall off - a memory I suppressed for decades. Strike three.

Cancelled.

Never thought of it like that, the seizure in the Andromeda Strain. More the way that it seems to scare hell out of people when they see one. Doing their best to get away from me(What I'm told after), when one happens.

 

[AuroraSaab]

It's probably just my own personal bugbear , in the same way that I got outraged when GTA Online introduced an event where players were split into two teams: truck drivers and cyclists. The objective is to kill the cyclists. Yet I felt less outraged about other mechanics which are similarly abhorrent.

Anyway, why I've cancelled Crichton:
There's a scene in the Andromeda Strain where one of the scientists sees a blinking alarm light which triggers a photosensitive seizure and makes them lose bladder control, all in the pursuit of adding unnecessary drama in an already tense situation.
There's an argument that Crichton was going for a positive portrayal "despite their epilepsy this person is a very accomplished scientist" only to completely undermine them in a moment of tension.

His next novel features someone who, after a car crash has seizures and commits acts of terrible explosive violence during post-ictal blackouts.

One negative portrayal of epilepsy, Yuck. Twice in his first two books is Yikes. He later rowed back on that, but as someone who was a qualified doctor he should have known better than to use health conditions in this way. It was a different time, I suppose.

Also as a very small child I was traumatised by seeing Yul Brynner's face fall off - a memory I suppressed for decades. Strike three.

Cancelled.

Fair enough. I think stuff like that in books and films passes most of us by because it doesn't touch us personally so we don't even notice it. I feel like that about a lot of the treatment of women in books and films, and in real life.

It's a lazy trope though. He wasn't a hack writer by any means and you would think Crichton would have known better. The thing I remember most about Crichton is he was 6' 9" and married about 7 times.

 

[matticus]

The thing I remember most about Crichton is he was 6' 9" and married about 7 times.

"about"; was he married 6 and three quarter times? That would be spooky.

The thing I remember about him, was the suggestion ER (medical TV series) should have been called Thoracic Park.
Sorry ...

 

[matticus]

You need help!

He doesn't need help - he's got the Bible and the Silmarillion!

 

[Edwardoka]

He doesn't need help - he's got the Bible and the Silmarillion!

I got rid of one of them, because I have no interest in that genre of fiction any more, but I keep the other one to aid me on my philosophical journey. I've lost count of the number of nights I've spent awake with existential quandaries and I find referring to the source material of the universe helps.

For instance, who is Tom Bombadil?