Do drivers make better cyclists?

[Norm]

It was all going so well, until...

I take my BSI-approved cycling helmet off to you all.

Motorcyclists defo make better cyclists, but I guess that's pretty obvious

Indeed, but two of my bikes have 100+bhp engines, using technology and over a hundred years' of experience to extract energy from the juice of a gazillion fossilised plants and animals to produce motive power.

The rest of my bikes** share the same knackered old engine which is underpowered, drinks too much, has trouble retaining fluids due to dodgy old gaskets, is a bit too noisy, smokes a bit and is not generally something which should be run indoors due to the possible build up of toxic fumes.



** The bikes which use this engine are also commonly called HPV's, pedal-cycles, push-bikes or, if you are Mrs Norm, they are called "Not-another-of-those-bloody-things--why-do-you -want-another-one--how-many-can-you-ride-at-any-one-time"

 

[Cyclopathic]

Driving a car can certainly give a cyclist a different perspective on using the road and it is my opinion that a better understanding or a wider perspective on using the road can translate into being a more competant cyclist. It can make a cyclist mor eaware of which situations may be dangerous for them. It can give a cyclist an apreciation of where blind spots may be and when they might be in them.
Obviously there are many very good and experienced cyclists who have never driven a car but I think even they may be able to learn still more if they were to drive a car for a few weeks.
Surely any experience on the road that is outside of what one is used to will be informative and could well lead to a direct or indirect improvement of road skills and possibly improve safety. I would add that the criteria I personally use for good driving or riding is primarily safety. I think we are acheiving something if we are able to get whee we are going in safety. Efficiency and ease of travel are also important but not at the expense of safety.

 

[User269]

Horse riders ? You cannot be serious dude !!

Yes I can, although I generally prefer not to be.

 

[yello]

I too found that the advanced motorcycling training I did made me far more aware on the road... and I thought I was pretty good anyway! Being a cyclist gave a different perspective, made me more aware of cyclists, and so by extension a better driver, but I feel it was motorcycling that made the greater difference.

 

[Alembicbassman]

Hermann Maier was a good skier but not so good on his motorcycle, Mark Webber is a good driver but fell off his mountain bike

 

[derrick]

For some people it comes naturally, for others it takes longer to get to grips with, i know people who have been driving for years and they are still useless, and the same for cyclist,
He

Hermann Maier was a good skier but not so good on his motorcycle, Mark Webber is a good driver but fell off his mountain bike

Has also fallen of the track a few times aswell, lol

 

[lukesdad]

Norm my cycles have a 100BHP+ engine

I tell you what off road motorcyclists make good mtbers I rode with Paul Edmonson.. awesome,
Google him.

 

[theclaud]

Sorry, Miss TF but I think that you have misunderstood the hypothesis. As a non-driver, you don't know what you would be like as a cyclist if you were a driver. It doesn't mean that you aren't an excellent cyclist.

And likewise, Bicycle has no idea whether his cycling would be worse than it is if he were a non-driver. Which makes MTF's position as valid as his. The point is that the notion of the "experienced" driver doesn't really count for anything in terms of ability, responsibility, skill or awareness. Drivers are free, given the almost complete absence of checks or consequences for themselves, simply to accumulate bad habits and become increasingly complacent about the value of their "experience". If nothing else it seems counter-intuitive that such an environment might foster advanced roadcraft.

 

[Norm]

And likewise, Bicycle has no idea whether his cycling would be worse than it is if he were a non-driver. Which makes MTF's position as valid as his.

Which is why he was asking the question and why so many have posted their opinions. He has no idea of the actuality but he has a feeling. If (as appears to be the case) most others share that feeling, that also doesn't make it any more or less valid but he can still ask the question and other people can still share their own opinions.

Drivers are free, given the almost complete absence of checks or consequences for themselves, simply to accumulate bad habits and become increasingly complacent about the value of their "experience"

Hmm... you still appear to be focusing on drivers, the question was about people who are drivers and cyclists.

Does the understanding that a driver might feel he/she has few consequences for themselves make someone cycle differently to the way that they would cycle if they didn't have that understanding?

Does the understanding that a driver has no requirement for training after passing their test and might have had many years to pick up bad habits make someone cycle differently to the way that they would cycle if they didn't have that understanding?

If nothing else it seems counter-intuitive that such an environment might foster advanced roadcraft.

This isn't, IMO, about advanced roadcraft, because that suggests that a cyclist who drives is a better cyclist than one who doesn't.

 

[theclaud]

Which is why he was asking the question and why so many have posted their opinions. He has no idea of the actuality but he has a feeling. If (as appears to be the case) most others share that feeling, that also doesn't make it any more or less valid but he can still ask the question and other people can still share their own opinions.

Hmm... you still appear to be focusing on drivers, the question was about people who are drivers and cyclists.

Does the understanding that a driver might feel he/she has few consequences for themselves make someone cycle differently to the way that they would cycle if they didn't have that understanding?

Does the understanding that a driver has no requirement for training after passing their test and might have had many years to pick up bad habits make someone cycle differently to the way that they would cycle if they didn't have that understanding?

This isn't, IMO, about advanced roadcraft, because that suggests that a cyclist who drives is a better cyclist than one who doesn't.

That seems a generous reading of it. Someone who can be arsed to go through each post and chart the levels of agreement and disagreement might prove me wrong, but at a glance the "consensus" looks more like a polite "hmmmmm... I guess there might be something in that, but on the other hand I certainly feel that my driving is better because I'm a cyclist" with a few strong disagreements thrown in for good measure. There's absolutely no reason for the assumption that such an observed effect might be reciprocal, because the two activities/modes are not equivalent. It's all terribly unscientific, of course, but my observation is that insofar as cyclists adopt a mindset derived from driving, it can just as often lead to worse cycling. The obvious example being collusion in the marginalization of pedestrians.

 

[Arrowfoot]

Shortly after picking up cycling, i became aware more of cyclists on the road, could spot them a mile away. I also became more cautious of possible cyclists in the vicinity of smaller roads. Having being a motorist longer, defensive cycling in certain scenarios comes to mind naturally.

All good.

 

[al78]

That seems a generous reading of it. Someone who can be arsed to go through each post and chart the levels of agreement and disagreement might prove me wrong, but at a glance the "consensus" looks more like a polite "hmmmmm... I guess there might be something in that, but on the other hand I certainly feel that my driving is better because I'm a cyclist" with a few strong disagreements thrown in for good measure. There's absolutely no reason for the assumption that such an observed effect might be reciprocal, because the two activities/modes are not equivalent. It's all terribly unscientific, of course, but my observation is that insofar as cyclists adopt a mindset derived from driving, it can just as often lead to worse cycling. The obvious example being collusion in the marginalization of pedestrians.

The suggestion that pedestrians could be marginalized is interesting; given that everyone is a pedestrian at some point then everyone should have an understanding of a pedestrians needs. If it is suggested that a driver taking up cycling would make them more sympathetic to cyclists when driving then by the same argument they ought to be sympathetic to pedestrians as well.

 

[brokenflipflop]

I'm new to The Guardian so I'm a bit simple but I thought the pavement is for pedestrians.

 

[Bicycle]

There's absolutely no reason for the assumption that such an observed effect might be reciprocal, because the two activities/modes are not equivalent. It's all terribly unscientific, of course, but my observation is that insofar as cyclists adopt a mindset derived from driving, it can just as often lead to worse cycling. The obvious example being collusion in the marginalization of pedestrians.

You're quite right. It is all terribly unscientific. I started the thread simply to air a thought I'd had. I was pleasantly surprised by all the opinions offered, although once I'd posted I had no right to moan even if I didn't like them.

I've raised this question also with a few friends who are keen cyclists. They all drive, so the response will be weighted. The unanimous belief was that experience in any other form of transport is of benefit in a transport system where use is shared between many vehicle types, with no exceptions. All those I asked put the experience of bicycles as an aid to good driving above experience of cars being an aid to good cycling. That opinion was well expressed on this thread too and on reflection I agree.

All those I chatted with were of the belief that drivers who failed to take bicycles into account were probably not cyclists and cyclists who behaved as if the highways were build only for them were probably not drivers. These remarks were made with a hint of a smile. Levels of wryness in the smiles varied.

All were also pedestrians and none felt there had been any collusion in any form of perceived marginalisation. That all were pedestrians will have weighted the responses.

Frankly, none understood the point, but I don't want to give the impression they're as thick as I am.

 

[gaz]

A better cyclist in what sense?
In a sense that they stay out of the way or that they are safer because they know stuff that non-drivers don't know.