Do we not deserve our bad rep?

[Fab Foodie]

Come on are you serious?

Yes, and why not?

 

[mickle]

Yes, and why not?

+ I

 

[snorri]

In London and Scotland

I cycle for months without seeing an rlj, and I cycle for weeks without seeing traffic lights.

 

[hackbike 6]

I really believe that sometimes it's part of the reason. Now try and convince me that it ain't.

I know a moton at work who has a poor attitude towards cyclists:

Because we don't pay road tax

He's a diamond bloke really though.I don't actually believe he would drive poorly towards cyclists though.

 

[jezhiggins]

I've noticed RLJing increase significantly in Brum over the last 18 months. To the point that I'm surprised if I see one stop.

We've discussed this before, I think. On the routes I take, I rarely see another cyclist, let alone anyone jumping the lights (although you wouldn't across the middleway would you?). The number of people I see riding on the pavement are vastly outnumbered by the lights-using types on the roads. I'm not condoning RLJing or pavement cycling, quite the opposite in fact, but to suggest it's the majority of cyclists is pretty fanciful.

I'm fed up of getting the brunt of their behaviour.

Going back to the OP and "getting our house in order", if every cyclist magically transformed in to a model of Cyclecraft perfection overnight, would every driver also magically transform into a model highway citizen? Every cyclist would be safer, but would the ridiculous things drivers sometimes do become just a bad memory?

Cyclists shouldn't be RLJing, or on the pavement, or running the wrong way up one way streets or any of the other stupid stuff. It probably does endanger me slightly through "general bad feeling", but the reason they should be more sensible to make themselves safer.

There is, I think, a minority of drivers who drive dangerously - too quick, dodgy overtakes, and so on - in the full knowledge that what they're doing is unsafe or illegal. They continue to do so because a) they're hardly ever nicked and everyone else on the road accomodates them by slowing down, moving out of the way, and so on. Those prats are going to drive like dickheads no matter what.

There's a much larger group who simply aren't as good as they think they are, who get things wrong occasionally. If a "discussion" ensues they're probably quite likely to bring out the RLJ, wobbling around, etc stuff because they can't see or won't admit their own mistake. (After all, if someone really was wobbling around you'd give them more room, not less surely ). Those are excuses, not reasons, and crap excuses at that.

Unfortunately the same applies to cyclists. I'm aware this might sound like a council of despair, but I don't mean it to be (and that I've wandered off my own point a bit). I'm just laying out an alternative position.

 

[BentMikey]

Yes, granted I do accept that I am part of a ''group'' when I am out on a bike. But car drivers being rascist towards me if I am on a pushbike rather then a motor vehicle. I think this is taking it a bit extreme.

If someone drives/rides like an idiot, then I'll say that irrespective of what car/bike they are driving/riding.

Maybe motorists are like that because coming across other motorists who drive like idiots they have come to accept rather then the odd cyclist who RLJ.

That's probably because you don't follow the herd and are being sensible about the whole issue. TRL549 - "Drivers' perceptions of cyclists" makes for interesting reading, and IMO it does seem to match what I experience, and what I read others on here experiencing.

http://www.trl.co.uk/store/report_detail.asp?srid=2700

Click buy now, then select the free .pdf download. You won't have to pay anything.

 

[ComedyPilot]

I cycle for months without seeing an rlj, and I cycle for weeks without seeing traffic lights.

That's because you live in civilisation.....

 

[Twiggy]

I dunno about if cyclists as a whole deserve the bad rep we get, (I doubt it though)

But it's no excuse to hurling abuse at us.

 

[hackbike 666]

I know a moton at work who has a poor attitude towards cyclists:

Because we don't pay road tax

He's a diamond bloke really though.I don't actually believe he would drive poorly towards cyclists though.

Yet another fantastic post,well done.

 

[jezhiggins]

I probably see 5-6 bikes on hte road each way, each day on my commute (Bristol Road or Hagley Rd/Broad Street). The majority of them do jump the lights. And that's normally 5 days a week.

I do see far more riding on the pavements. Sometimes where they're allowed to, sometimes where they're not. Bournbrook in particular abounds with pavement-riding cyclists.

Bloody students

No, but 'getting our house in order' is what we should be responsible for.

Given that we (for some value of we) do ride in a sensible way, what should we do to change the behaviour of others, because leading by example doesn't seem to be working? Is this something we should do before, or at the same time as working to change motorist behaviour?

 

[Tynan]

I see literally hundreds of commuter cyclist every day, I reckon half at best stop for reds, on a good day, one in four on a bad day

reckong maybe one in five have no lights after dark and another two in five have poor lights, single low power light, often clipped to their clothes

in my experience rlj is the first issue drivers have and I make them right on that, they'll always grumble but rlj gives them genuine ammunition

 

[hackbike 666]

Do you cycle the Mile End Road Tynan?

 

[mickle]

We have better national cycle training now than at any time in history and this will feed through eventually, raising the general standard of cycling. I long ago came to the conclusion that the majority of drivers have a piss poor attitude to cyclists.

My commute route a few years ago very clearly indicated that drivers treat cyclists differently to other drivers. One particular road is lined with parked cars. When I drove down it in my scabby old Cortina other cars would give way. When I cycled down it they would play chicken whether I had right of way or not. It happened every single day, expecting me to jump out of their way with that po faced look on their faces. Some would actually accelerate towards me. Bullying aggressive intimidating behaviour and not isolated incidents, every single day.

Cycle lanes and other facilities are not the answer to the danger posed by cars to cyclists and peds, it's driver education. To many drivers treat cyclists with utter contempt. If we have any hope of getting more people on bikes we need to remove the danger from the roads not remove ourselves.

RLJers may be annoying but the danger they pose to anyone but themselves is miniscule.

 

[mickle]

Not one of my most cohesive posts. But hey.

 

[Absinthe Minded]

I see literally hundreds of commuter cyclist every day, I reckon half at best stop for reds, on a good day, one in four on a bad day

reckong maybe one in five have no lights after dark and another two in five have poor lights, single low power light, often clipped to their clothes

in my experience rlj is the first issue drivers have and I make them right on that, they'll always grumble but rlj gives them genuine ammunition

Yeah, I see hundreds too - and I reckon you're about right in your observations.

You're also spot-on with the ammunition comment - this is what makes RLJ'ing all the worse, and what bothers those of us that don't do it.