Do we not deserve our bad rep?

[snorri]

Errr I don't even know myself.

Then you must arm yourself with some facts, here is a starter for you.

http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.com/pa/cm200708/cmselect/cmenvaud/907/907.pdf
I would refer you to Page 7 para 4 where you see the tax was introduced in 1909 in order to fund maintenance and construction of roads. This hypothecation ceased in 1936 following passing of a Finance Act. The term Road Fund Licence or Road Tax is still used incorrectly to describe Vehicle Excise Duty, a duty which bears no relation to the costs to the nation of provision of our transport network.

Also
http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200405/cmselect/cmtran/218/21805.htm

See para 7, where you will note only some of the costs are borne by the road user, others are borne by society at large.

Trouble is, it's rather difficult to quote these websites and paragraphs to car drivers whilst negotiating city traffic.

 

[hackbike 666]

Thank you.

 

[dondare]

Then you must arm yourself with some facts, here is a starter for you.

http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.com/pa/cm200708/cmselect/cmenvaud/907/907.pdf
I would refer you to Page 7 para 4 where you see the tax was introduced in 1909 in order to fund maintenance and construction of roads. This hypothecation ceased in 1936 following passing of a Finance Act. The term Road Fund Licence or Road Tax is still used incorrectly to describe Vehicle Excise Duty, a duty which bears no relation to the costs to the nation of provision of our transport network.

Also
http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200405/cmselect/cmtran/218/21805.htm

See para 7, where you will note only some of the costs are borne by the road user, others are borne by society at large.

Trouble is, it's rather difficult to quote these websites and paragraphs to car drivers whilst negotiating city traffic.

Not really true, though, since neither VED or duty on petrol are spent directly on roads. All taxes and duties get mixed together and spent on whatever the Govt. wants to spend it on. Those who pay the most taxes overall pay the most for roads, and also most for the NHS, public sector pensions, the emergency services, schools, prisons, wars, legal aid, welfare, Britains contribution to the EU and so on. As a general rule that means that the highest earners pay the most and the low and unwaged pay the least.
Now, cycling is far more popular with the relatively well-paid middle-classes than it is with those earning below-average wages, or living on benefits. Even though cycling is cheap, poor people tend not to do it, though they might find the money to run a car. The average cyclist earns more than the average wage, and therefore contributes more to the economy, including the roads, than the average non-cyclist.
This does not give them more right to use the public roads, which are free at the point of use to everyone irrespective of how much tax they pay, just like all other public services. But anyone, whether or not they own a bike, has to pay duty on any motor-vehicle that they use on the public roads.

 

[swee'pea99]

Surely one of the main points is that the vast majority of (adult) cyclists do pay road tax. They just happen to be on their bike not in their car today (thus relieving congestion).

 

[jonesy]

...
This does not give them more right to use the public roads, which are free at the point of use to everyone irrespective of how much tax they pay, just like all other public services. But anyone, whether or not they own a bike, has to pay duty on any motor-vehicle that they use on the public roads.

Indeed. I suspect few motorists would consider lorries to have a greater right to use the road than they do, even though the VED on lorries, O licence etc is far more expensive than the taxes paid by car drivers.

 

[bryce]

I agree with the original poster. Law breaking cyclists are most certainly the majority in London. I've used the expression 'real cyclists' before and was jeered but I'd use it again to differentiate between the idiot RLJing law-breaking numpty day-glo pseudo-underground-elite-wannabe commuters and the 'real cyclists' who cycle as a hobby. There are more and more of the former on the road - and other cyclists who are new to the lark see them and copy them.

I feel for taxi drivers who have to put up with us cyclists day-in day-out.

On the issue of road-tax, we all pay all sorts of taxes daily. I expect I pay more overall tax as a cycle-commuter than many drivers pay (and I own a car) - the argument is poor and doesn't wash.

 

[jonesy]

I agree with the original poster. Law breaking cyclists are most certainly the majority in London....

Sorry, but a statement like that does require some supporting evidence...?

 

[ufkacbln]

The one I use about "Road Tax" is the fact that Winston Churchill spoke against the original Bill in Parliament on the grounds that sooner or later drivers would unfoundedly claim "moral ownership" of the roads they were "paying for" to the detriment of other road users........Shrewd man!

Or as I did in a similar situation ask why they think we don't?

Then pointed out that all vehicles are assessed according to CO2 emissions, and as a Class A vehicle (less than 100g CO2 per km) you are in class A and pay the full tariff for all vehicles in that tariff (Nil!).

Then ask if you can assume that any rise in Class A will include ALL vehicles in this class and be reflected by rises across the board?

Becomes a less popular rant, and not one easily argued against!





This November 2008 briefing document gives all you need!

 

[freewheelwilly]

Reading this thread has really depressed me. Do any of you lot drive cars at all? when i'm in my car i get just as frustrated with poor driving as i do with poor riding. Doesnt matter what the mode of transport is - its the fact that these idiots are allowed on the road in the first place be it 2 wheels or 4.

 

[jonesy]

Reading this thread has really depressed me. Do any of you lot drive cars at all? when i'm in my car i get just as frustrated with poor driving as i do with poor riding. Doesnt matter what the mode of transport is - its the fact that these idiots are allowed on the road in the first place be it 2 wheels or 4.

Almost certainly the vast majority does drive. What makes you think otherwise?

However, the mode of transport does matter very much in terms of the risk imposed on others.

 

[hackbike 666]

numpty day-glo pseudo-underground-elite-wannabe commuters

Is this me?

 

[wafflycat]

All of them.

Is the wrong answer.

 

[wafflycat]

Tell him what road tax is, why it was ever introduced, why it applies only to some vehicles, how the money is used, how the roads are really paid for, and who has a legal right to use the public roads.

A good start would be to inform that there's no such bloody tax in any event.

 

[bryce]

Sorry, but a statement like that does require some supporting evidence...?

I would post a video of my commute for you but I don't have a camera. The vast majority on my commute break the law - most of the time it's totally harmless but equally stupid. Why would you want to RLJ and cause danger to yourself and others to save yourself 30 seconds on your way into work?

 

[jonesy]

I would post a video of my commute for you but I don't have a camera. The vast majority on my commute break the law - most of the time it's totally harmless but equally stupid. Why would you want to RLJ and cause danger to yourself and others to save yourself 30 seconds on your way into work?

I'm always suspicious of subjective individual observations like that. Inevitably the law breakers are going to attract more attention to themselves than the others, so you are more likely to notice them as you ride along, with your own attention focused on your own safety. That's why I'd prefer evidence from independent observers, e,g, using roadside video analysis. And if we are making comparisons between levels of law-breaking, let's also not forget that in many places a majority of drivers break the 30 mph speed limit.

NB- there is a bit of a contradiction in what you have posted....