Do we not deserve our bad rep?

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bryce

Senior Member
Location
London, SW10
What's the contradiction? The idea of RLJing being harmless most of the time and it also causing danger? That's logical to me.

Maybe Battersea > Mayfair is particularly anarchic and non-representative but I am sure the majority of cyclists I see break the law and the proportion is much higher compared to drivers and even motorbikers. Again - they usually cause no direct harm from their actions but it's still dangerous and IMHO daft given how fragile and exposed cyclists are on urban roads.
 

dondare

Über Member
Location
London
wafflycat said:
A good start would be to inform that there's no such bloody tax in any event.

It's the term that most people use when they are referring to VED and understood by all as such.
 

dondare

Über Member
Location
London
[quote name='swee'pea99']Surely one of the main points is that the vast majority of (adult) cyclists do pay road tax. They just happen to be on their bike not in their car today (thus relieving congestion).[/QUOTE]

Whether or not they own a motor vehicle as well as a bike and therefore pay VED/Road Tax is a matter of total irrelevance. Whether they pay for roads &c. through Income Tax and Community Charge or exist entirely on benefits and make no net contribution to the State at all is also irrelevant. The public Roads are for the use of all and sundry irrespective of their contribution to the Exchequor.
 

dondare

Über Member
Location
London
jonesy said:
Sorry, but a statement like that does require some supporting evidence...?

I don't use a camera but if my observations can be trusted I'll corroborate this: the majority of cyclists in London ignore the law; they'll ride on and off the pavement and through red lights. The closer to the centre you get, the more prevalent this is.
 

pinkkaz

Veteran
Location
London
dondare said:
I don't use a camera but if my observations can be trusted I'll corroborate this: the majority of cyclists in London ignore the law; they'll ride on and off the pavement and through red lights. The closer to the centre you get, the more prevalent this is.

+1
I commute in London and can confirm this. To the point that when I stop at red lights I feel stupid because no-one else does (apart from the really busy crossings where it really would be suicide!)
 

wafflycat

New Member
Whenever I'm cycling or driving in my local city (Norwich), whilst it has it's share of pavement cyclists, I see far more motorists jumping red lights than cyclists. Indeed I can guarantee I will see motorists jumping red lights every time I'm in the city. I can almost guarantee I'll see motorists driving on pavements at some points. The bottom line is you get twits in charge of all forms of transport.
 

col

Legendary Member
adunn01 said:
From reading a few posts recently, and witnessing some poor cycling on my commutes through Glasgow over the last 6 months I've come to the conclusion that drivers general opinion of cyclists as a nuisance is pretty understandable.

We expect to be treated with respect as fellow road users and for drivers to follow every rule with regard to cyclist to the letter, but the vast majority of cyclists have no issues RLJing, cycling without lights in the dark, etc etc.

I had a conversation with a motorcyclist the other week while stopped at a red light which started with him saying "I thought you lot didn't need to stop at red lights" - people don't come to these conclusions based on a handful of cyclists not following the rules.

It's easy for us to complain about being picked on in the media, the police having no time for us, drivers thinking we don't deserve our space in the but until we get our own house in order it's never going to change.

Well it isnt surprising to most people with good sense to see the reasons why this is the case.Just my opinion of course;)
We have the youngsters that dont give a toss how and where they cycle,we have the primary brigade who stay in that position even if a safer and more amicable position is available bacause its their right to do it,we have the riteous brigade who think every other vehicle is wrong even when mistakes are made,we have the goaders who try to get a reaction from other vehicles because they think its funny,we have the secretive cycling internal affairs brigade who try to catch people out so they can can write a letter to employers,we have the i have the right to be here so every other vehicle has to make allowances for me because i am more important brigade,we have the i dont have to stop or slow down brigade because my journey is more important,We have the even though im a slow vehicle everyone else has to wait for me and give way to me and not pass too close,even though i can do it when it suits brigade,blimey i could think of more but you get the picture.Oh and dont forget the assumption brigade,who assume every mistake is done on purpose so have a go at a shocked female or lone driver,but funnily enough not large or more than one.Basically we dont half have some real plonkers out there on bikes making things worse for everyone else:biggrin: So yes i think in the general eye of motorists we do deserve this rep.

Now if everyone cycling did so with good manners,and no attitude problems, it might not be as bad a rep,but thats unlikely to happen,there are too many with these sorts of attitudes ,so its going to get worse,it will never get better.All we can do is cycle to how we think is the right way,and treat faster vehicles with respect and act accordingly.
 

swee'pea99

Legendary Member
dondare said:
Whether or not they own a motor vehicle as well as a bike and therefore pay VED/Road Tax is a matter of total irrelevance.
Well, arguably. Unarguably, tho', 'I do!' is a pretty unanswerable rejoinder to someone yelling 'Why don't you pay road tax?'
 
pinkkaz said:
+1
I commute in London and can confirm this. To the point that when I stop at red lights I feel stupid because no-one else does (apart from the really busy crossings where it really would be suicide!)

+1

Same here.
 

freewheelwilly

Senior Member
Location
London
hackbike 666 said:
+1

Same here.


I agree. Ive even been asked to budge out of the way so the riders behind me can jump the lights. It beggars belief.
Coupled with the increase in cars RLJing it really isnt worth it and if you saw what i saw a few years back you would never do it again...
 

skwerl

New Member
Location
London
jonesy said:
I'm always suspicious of subjective individual observations like that. Inevitably the law breakers are going to attract more attention to themselves than the others, so you are more likely to notice them as you ride along, with your own attention focused on your own safety. That's why I'd prefer evidence from independent observers, e,g, using roadside video analysis. And if we are making comparisons between levels of law-breaking, let's also not forget that in many places a majority of drivers break the 30 mph speed limit.

NB- there is a bit of a contradiction in what you have posted....

Every time I stop at reds in the centre of town I run a mental straw poll on who stops and who keeps going. I'd say the rolling average is probably 70% run reds. Difficult to give an exact number but it's def. a significant majority.
 

rog

New Member
Location
London
bryce said:
I would post a video of my commute for you but I don't have a camera. The vast majority on my commute break the law - most of the time it's totally harmless but equally stupid. Why would you want to RLJ and cause danger to yourself and others to save yourself 30 seconds on your way into work?

Here’s some footage from this morning’s journey into London. Pretty much mirrors this comment…


View: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=icM-s3RbTTs


I know this doesn’t prove that all cyclists act in this way at all junctions but is a good indicator of what typically occurs…
 

col

Legendary Member
hackbike 666 said:
Motorists mentality,they must get past you at all costs and rush up to the next set of lights to save a few seconds.

Ah but isnt it cyclists mentality too;)
 
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