Dodgy knees and big gears.

[Taba]

From a combination of Skateboarding, football, road running and rock climbing - I have decidedly dodgy knees. I posted here before about converting my bike to fixed gear or SS or building one up and got a ton of good advice.

After a bit of reading I'm now worried that my knees might be damaged further by spinning a bigger gear. Anyone here have difficulties with their knees, does riding on a big(ish) gear all the time make it worse?

I'm 5'10" and weigh 150lbs, with very muscular and powerful thighs from playing football and skateboarding, I thought this would make fixed perfect for me as I can push big gears pretty well, but I dont want to ruin my knees. What are your experiences?

 

[Joe24]

I started riding fixed just over a year ago with a 65" gear. I thought my knees were pretty strong, but after riding fixed abit and doing skids, it made my knees ache.
I went on holiday and didnt take the fixed, just took my geared bike.
I then eased myself into fixed, and havent had problems with my knees since, and they are pretty strong.
Its not the spinning a big gear, its the honking a big gear. Remember, going up hills when you normally change down, or going into a headwind when your legs arent turning very fast puts some strain on your knees.
Start off with a smaller gear, something like 65" and go from there.
Im 17 and started on 65, then went to 66", then 72" which ive rode in Wales and did a 76mile ride in Derbyshire doing some pretty decent hills, and TT on a gear thats mid 90". Ive even had it where ive been going into a strong headwind with my legs hardly turning, and no problems with the knees.
Dont go straight in with a big gear if you have some hills, take it easy first.
Fixed will make your knees stronger, aswell as your thighs, calfs and my ankles have got wider/strengthened up more aswell.
Its also pretty good for the upper body when your going up steep hills and your using your upper body aswell as your legs.
No idea how much im weighing at the moment, was a couple of pounds under 10 stone last time i looked. My bike is pretty light aswell.
Oh, you might thik that your thighs are muscular and powerful, but you might be surprised.
I had done about 5000 or a few more miles on my geared bike before i had started to ride fixed, and i started to do about 1000miles a week. Went onto fixed and the first hill i went up was hard. Made my legs feel like they were on fire and were about to explode!
Went out on a club ride and did alright, but keeping up when going down hill or on the flat was hard. Taught me how to spin though!
Not bad to say that when i first got fixed my mum said, "how many gears has it got? One? Well you wont be going very far on that will you!"

 

[colinr]

I had to quit BJJ because of dodgy knees, but haven't had any grief with them from a 71"* gear, except when I had the saddle too low. Not overly hilly round my way though.

* assuming I've got the maths right. 700x25 wheel, 46T front, 17T back.

 

[skwerl]

I'm only one sample but my knees (initially knackered by running) are worse on fixed. I rode nothing but for 5 years and a few months ago swithced back to a 'normal' road bike - an immediate improvement but by no means cured.
Big thighs won't save your knees. In fact, because you can push big gears you'll end up on a big gear 'cos anything under 75" will feel too spinny.
Without knowing any better I'd guess you ahve the same issue as me - patella tracking issues, caused by an inbalance between the inner and outer thigh muscles. Do some exercises focussed on improving that - made a big difference to me.

 

[skwerl]

Im 17

no doubt works well in your favour. just keep an eye on the muscle balance, as I mention above, as you grow up () and it shouldn't ever become a problem.

 

[Joe24]

Well, the muscle balance on my upper legs means i have pretty large thighs, or large-ish, but the inside isnt as big. When i sit down and pedal, theres not a big gap between each inner leg, and my knees dont really point in much.
My calfs do need to get bigger though, i should really start to excersice those.
What would you say is the best way to work the inner leg?
I dont really want to end up with any problems, and if its gonna' help then cool

 

[bonj2]

I had done about 5000 or a few more miles on my geared bike before i had started to ride fixed, and i started to do about 1000miles a week.

1000 miles a WEEK? don't you mean a month?

 

[Joe24]

1000 miles a WEEK? don't you mean a month?

Woops, ment a month.
Just testing you all

 

[Taba]

Hmm, a few opinions on here is hardly scientific, but I'm planning to be a mountain guide in the future and I need my knees more than I need the fun of a fixie. Better safe than sorry so I guess I will just sort my gears out and keep my legs spinning on low gears.

 

[Joe24]

Hmm, a few opinions on here is hardly scientific, but I'm planning to be a mountain guide in the future and I need my knees more than I need the fun of a fixie. Better safe than sorry so I guess I will just sort my gears out and keep my legs spinning on low gears.

You realise that a smaller gear could hurt your knees just as much?
Although a bigger gear will hurt your knees more.
65" made my knees hurt at first, untill they were used to it.
Its going from going up a hill and changing down and spinning, to having to honk up a hill.

 

[Taba]

Is there anywhere with good research on the subject that I can have a read of?

Anymore opinions/experiences would be helpful too.

 

[Joe24]

Is there anywhere with good research on the subject that I can have a read of?

Anymore opinions/experiences would be helpful too.

Well there a few older guys around here that ride fixed, and they dont appear to have dodgy knees.
Sheldon brown probably has something about it on his page
I wouldnt worry too much about it, just go into fixed slowly and stay in a small ish gear and you will be fine.

 

[4F]

I buggered my knee playing football (cruciate and medial ligaments) and had to stop playing. I decided agains the wait of 9 months for the operation on the NHS.

I did this about 10 years ago and within the last 6 months at the age of 43 have started to ride fixed and have had no twinges or problems at all with the knee.

If anything I would say that riding fixed has helped as it has improved the muscles both above and below the knee and it is feeling the best it has in years

 

[skwerl]

this article gives a good intro:
http://www.medicinenet.com/patellofemoral_syndrome/article.htm
This plus IT band issues are the two common ones for runners and cyclists.
To combat you need to focus some weight-bearing exercise on the inner thigh. Leg extensions with the foot splayed outwards are good. At home I have a simple exercise my physio gave me which is to step up onto and over 1-1.5 foot high step. The aim being to focus on very controlled, slow raising and lowering. You can feel it work the inner muscle and it's extremely hard. I can't lift myself higher than about two feet using just my left leg (probably cos I don't do the exercises enough)

 

[Tel]

Anymore opinions/experiences would be helpful too.

I've done martial arts most of my life and blame it for the state of my knees. When I got back in the saddle this year after about 10 years of not riding my knees really hurt and I was concerned that my knees were so shot that I wouldn't be able to ride. I mentioned it on here and got some sound advice, played about with my saddle height and got it just right so that my knees no longer hurt. Sheldon Brown has very good advice regarding saddle height "You never know what is enough until you know what is too much." http://www.sheldonbrown.com/saddles.html

Anyway move along a few months to when I converted my bike to fixed. I kept to a low gear of about 70" and haven't experienced any problems with my knees at all. I actually feel that the back braking has strengthened the muscle around my knees (muscles I don't normally use) which has helped my knees.

I also take cod liver oil, glucosamine & multi vits to help with my joints.