Does a degree help?

[vernon]

My eldest is of university age and has mixed opinions about further education. She is very bright (I say that objectively as her younger sister, whilst entrepreneurial and very creative, is not academically talented) and also pretty well rounded.

But she feels no strong desire to go to uni' and take a degree, she feels that its a waste of her time and she is leaning towards an apprenticeship.

I don't want to push her in any direction, she has been empowered all of her life to take the responsibility and reward for her own choices.

Maybe it's just me, but I think the question might be starting from the wrong place. Going to university is a great life experience, true, but how about 'What are you so deeply interested in that you'd want to spend time getting a degree in it?'

I think that it also might indicate that the compulsory careers education delivered by her school/college has failed to deliver anything useful over the past five years. I know that it's nigh on impossible to pigeonhole pupils from the outset of KS3 or even earlier but all pupils are meant to have been experienced a range of activities that could indicate potential careers and the qualifications needed to make a start. Even with exposure to decent careers guidance, some students are encouraged to do inappropriate combinations of A-levels to gain access to some of the universities that offer appropriate degrees. Heads of sixth form are often the poorest source of advice regarding careers and I've witnessed my students having to change track with their career choices having found out too late that their subject choices are ineligible.

Some starting points:

National Careers Service: https://nationalcareersservice.direct.gov.uk/advice/Pages/default.aspx
Find a degree course: https://www.ucas.com/ucas/undergraduate/find-course
Apprenticeships info: https://www.gov.uk/further-education-skills/apprenticeships

It is indisputable that some careers demand degrees as the entry level qualification but the starting point would be to focus on finding information about the careers that are appealing, look at the entry requirements and make an informed decision about the pros and cons regarding apprenticeships vs degrees.

Yes there are folk who have climbed the greasy pole without a degree but they are becoming increasingly rare.
Yes there are poor quality/value degrees but they do not devalue the high quality degrees.
Degrees have never been a guarantee of their holders' ability to do a job but they do give their holders an opportunity to demonstrate their employability at interviews.

 

[Chris S]

Degrees were worthless 20 years ago as well. I've got an MSc from a Russell Group university. The lecturers there had to tell their cronies which questions were coming up in the exam and do their course work for them just so that they could get a decent pass rate.
At one time having a degree was a sign that you were in the top 5% academically, now any idiot can get one.

 

[Milkfloat]

Looking from a purely practical point of view - nowadays a degree is pretty much required to even get a foot through the door, where I work even the cleaner has an MSc (seriously). That does not say that you cannot get on without a degree, but a degree gives you more choices. I think if you want to succeed without a degree if you are just starting out now, then be prepared to fight hard to take any opportunity offered to learn a trade and then set up on your own.

 

[Accy cyclist]

My nephew is an apprentice cathedral stonemason. His apprenticeship, which is a Cathedral Workshops Fellowship, is sponsored by the Worshipful Company of Masons and he gets not only the practical training but a degree at the end of it as well. He also gets all sorts of opportunities to travel.

He loves it and he's getting the sort of experience he would never get stuck in a university. Plus he's getting paid (and paid relatively well for an apprentice).

I'm jealous,that's what i wanted to do when i left school. Instead i ended up as an apprentice painter and decorator.There was/still is a stonemasons at the end of our street called Rock(yes the name was featured in That's Life once)Memorials http://great-harwood.cylex-uk.co.uk/company/rock-memorials-13286611.html . My dad asked them to take me on but they weren't taking anyone on that year so it didn't happen..

 

[yello]

As I mentioned in another thread, a degree for me was essential. The line of work I was in meant that no potential employer would look at my CV without their being a degree on it. Right or wrong is another debate, it was how things were.

 

[mythste]

I went to university with a number of people that were on the course (economics, so not a "silly" degree par se) because they "may as well". Entirely the wrong choice for them and most are in a worse position than when they started.

If it feels right she should do it, if it doesn't, she shouldn't.

 

[shouldbeinbed]

It is a what bike question innit. Does the career path she likes need a degree or not to get her going? If so then she doesn't have a lot of choice.

I'd try to avoid the trendy or everyone has them but for half a dozen vacancies a year (e.g. Forensics on the back of CSI TV series) types.

 

[Crackle]

I've saved for twenty years to put them through uni. They're going whether they like it or not!

 

[Hill Wimp]

I have been doing an OU History degree for the last 4 years. I have had to stop and start due to work commitments but i have loved every minute of it. One of the students i met at summer school was a 21yr old lad who had top grade A Level results but just didn't know what path to follow. So he went out and got a job as a Postman. He started work at 4am finished at 1pm then studied for 6hrs a day through the OU. He got his degree with honours and i last heard he had got a good job in the US. His employers liked the fact he had done this and taken the time to think about what he wanted. He has no debt, life and work experience,maturity and gave himself time to get to know himself as an adult and make informed choices about his future.

Im not saying this is the way forward but for some it's worked and is certainly an option.

 

[yello]

Let me put it this way; my degree got me where I am today...

...and bombarded by begging letters from one of the UK's wealthiest universities!

 

[Racing roadkill]

My eldest is of university age and has mixed opinions about further education. She is very bright (I say that objectively as her younger sister, whilst entrepreneurial and very creative, is not academically talented) and also pretty well rounded.

But she feels no strong desire to go to uni' and take a degree, she feels that its a waste of her time and she is leaning towards an apprenticeship.

I don't want to push her in any direction, she has been empowered all of her life to take the responsibility and reward for her own choices.

So are degrees as valuable today as they were 20 years ago?

If you're not aiming for a career where a degree is a prerequisite (medicine , Dentistry, pharmacy, veterinarians, Law, nursing etc.) I wouldn't bother. When I did my first degree, the grant system was still in place, and there were no tuition fees. There's no way I'd go into a normal job, 30+ grand in a hole

 

[threebikesmcginty]

My nephew loves it. As well as working on one of the country's greatest cathedrals, he's been commissioned to create a plinth for a quite famous piece of sculpture, he made pieces for all of the family and he's made pieces that have been auctioned for charity. He gets to work in Poundbury (the Prince of Wales is the Patron of the Cathedral Workshops Fellowship programme) and has been invited to Highgrove.

Plus he gets to spend six months at a European cathedral...

Is he working on that Sagrada Familia? Tell him to pull his finger out, it's dragging on a bit.

 

[Over The Hill]

All things being equal then really a degree is the best option and really is becoming the norm.
Also a degree can be in a fairly wide subject area whereas an apprenticeship is much more narrow and really setting you up for one job at the end of it.

BUT I think it gets down to the degree being the preference but this can be overridden by personal choice or an alternative that is a good fit.

 

[Levo-Lon]

I'm jealous,that's what i wanted to do when i left school. Instead i ended up as an apprentice painter and decorator.There was/still is a stonemasons at the end of our street called Rock(yes the name was featured in That's Life once)Memorials http://great-harwood.cylex-uk.co.uk/company/rock-memorials-13286611.html . My dad asked them to take me on but they weren't taking anyone on that year so it didn't happen..

My dad did a street masons apprenticship..in the Bacup area in the late 50's..
he used that trade to get a highways inspecter job in Deal..then moved to cambridgeshire highways dpt..

then decided that jacket and tie was not for him...he then set up a very sucessfull business laying roads and footpaths with 40 men working...

 

[pubrunner]

My eldest is of university age and has mixed opinions about further education. She is very bright (I say that objectively as her younger sister, whilst entrepreneurial and very creative, is not academically talented) and also pretty well rounded.

But she feels no strong desire to go to uni' and take a degree, she feels that its a waste of her time and she is leaning towards an apprenticeship.

I think that an apprenticeship would be an excellent option; besides which, the option to take a degree will always be available, but this isn't (usually) the case with an apprenticeship.

Those who are bright, polite, reasonably articulate and willing to work, should have few difficulties in finding a decent job.