Does Helmet normalisation deter cyclists?

[Dogtrousers]

But isn't that a post-factum thing?

I'm more interested in how people +start+ cycling. It's not as if anyone is proposing to take helmets away from people like your friend :-)

Well it seems quite plausible to me. I'm just looking for reasonable arguments in either direction.

I want to take up an activity that I perceive to be dangerous. Here is a safety measure that I am informed will save my life. I'm going to view that safety measure in a positive light. It crops up in CC. Posts like "I've just bought my first bike in X years. What accessories do I need? Helmet, naturally. Do I need a puncture kit ...". Naturally I need a helmet - after all, it might save my life

Actually, come to think of it, that's another one for the list of barriers to taking up cycling - exaggerated fear of punctures.

If the exaggerated perception of danger wasn't there in the first place, it might be different: I want to take up an activity that I perceive to be quite safe. Here is a hat that makes my head look like a mushroom and squashes my coiffure. I'd feel under social pressure to wear one. I think I'll give that activity a miss because I don't want to look like a mushroom/mess my hair up/stand out because I'm not wearing one. That's plausible too.

But going back to the OP. I think you're trying to confirm a preconceived view. Taking this approach you will inevitably fall victim to confirmation bias and cherry picking of evidence - even if you make a conscious decision to try to avoid those pitfalls. Despite putting some effort into working out ways in which it may or may not be the case, I've come to the conclusion that it's unprovable either way. But it's been a fun exercise.

 

[matticus]

But going back to the OP. I think you're trying to confirm a preconceived view. Taking this approach you will inevitably fall victim to confirmation bias

Hmmm. Mr Trousers is a thoughtful chap, perhaps I should look into this possibility ... let's go back to the top of the thread:

Title: Does Helmet normalisation deter cyclists?

Ok, full disclosure - I'm pretty sure it does!
Can anyone point me to a resource for evidence?

Yep, it seems I was pretty clear and transparent there! So I'd like to thank Mr Trousers for his help in bringing attention to this. 👍

 

[Ming the Merciless]

So comprehensive that nothing has been added since 2016 and it is now an archive only....

@icowden

First of all you give the above response to the website from which you pull your evidence.

Secondly you state that you’ve used strong evidence. Let’s examine this latter point.

1. The transport research laboratory (a private company) that is quoted . The link to their study does not work.
2. You have taken a statement that says it’s increased from 30.7 to 34.3% as meaning it does that every survey.

In effect you’ve have taken two so called data points and assumed linear growth. We do not have any links to the actual surveys , how they were carried out, where they were carried out, the numbers surveyed and whether any unintended bias was introduced. Extrapolating from two data points is next to useless and shows. Hey I saw two and only two riders wearing helmets therefore it’s 100% usage.

Therefore to make a simplistic extrapolation from that, assuming linear growth is about as far from presenting strong evidence as it gets. Especially from a site you pulled a face at earlier.

 

[icowden]

@icowden
First of all you give the above response to the website from which you pull your evidence.
Secondly you state that you’ve used strong evidence. Let’s examine this latter point.

I didn't but I did state that I provided evidence. I did say that there seemed to be strong background evidence of continued growth in that study.
You have still provided um... absolutely no evidence. So on that basis, I'm still declaring a win.

Unless you have found some? Or do you want to continue to pick apart mine, to mask your lack of evidence?[/QUOTE]

 

[ericmark]

I got bikes for my children and wanted them to wear helmets, so no real option but to wear one myself, but in the 70's the helmets had no cooling, they were same idea as motorbike helmet and the sweat was running off my children's head. However things have moved on, and the helmets today direct air to keep ones head cool, but can see why anyone who tried using one in the early days would be put off.

I wear one today with lights built in, but in real terms not sure if the extra leverage exerted due to either motor bike or push bike helmet on ones neck is balanced by protection given to head, or if the battery for lights can catch fire in an accident. And I have not renewed my helmet as out of date.

My wife has fell off her bike, I as yet have not, she seems to fall off when starting up, so never a high speed thing, and not even sure if helmet hit the ground, it was a slow motion fall, failed start not really a crash. But the biggest problem with a helmet is what to do with it when not on the bike.

 

[Chief Broom]

As a newbie cyclists i wondered whether helmet use was obligatory as for motorcyclists and looked it up to see what the law was. It wouldnt have affected my decision to start riding again one way or the other. I was pleasantly surprised how light and unobtrusive modern lids are, and i do feel better protected. I fallen off or have been knocked off motorcycles numerous times so do appreciate protective gear....the last time my helmeted head hit the road was after doing a triple sumersault at 50mph,,,,glad i had it on,

 

[Ming the Merciless]

i do feel better protected. I fallen off or have been knocked off motorcycles numerous times so do appreciate protective gear....the last time my helmeted head hit the road was after doing a triple sumersault at 50mph,,,,glad i had it on,

This is the reason, many people risk compensate because they ”think” they are better protected. A cycle helmet certainly won’t do much to protect you when somersaulting at 50 mph, in fact in those circumstances it may well make things worse.

 

[Profpointy]

If it's on a public road they can't stop you, can they?

If your employer is organising an activity you'd defo be marked as a trouble maker at best if you refused to conform to their rules and in effect gate crashed the event, whether on public roads or not.

 

[Chief Broom]

This is the reason, many people risk compensate because they ”think” they are better protected. A cycle helmet certainly won’t do much to protect you when somersaulting at 50 mph, in fact in those circumstances it may well make things worse.

I cant agree with that, some accidents happen however carefully a person rides/drives without any risk compensation influencing the manner of driving. Heres an example- driving along a road at an appropriate speed when a car emerging from a side road suddenly appears in front of you...no chance of not hitting it, No risk compensation has influenced the manner of driving of the victim here.
Regarding the somersaulting accident. The extra weight could have possibly broken my neck but it didnt, when i hit the ground i was knocked unconscious. Without the helmet i think i would have been knocked dead. If i had to have the same accident again i would opt to be wearing a helmet.

 

[mjr]

I cant agree with that, some accidents happen however carefully a person rides/drives without any risk compensation influencing the manner of driving. Heres an example- driving along a road at an appropriate speed when a car emerging from a side road suddenly appears in front of you...no chance of not hitting it, No risk compensation has influenced the manner of driving of the victim here.

Assuming the car wasn't doing something incredible like 60mph, if you have passed so close in front of a car emerging from a side road that it could pull out into your path then, sorry, but I feel you have failed to ride so you could stop within what you could see to be clear (rather than within what you couldn't yet see as obstructed) and should retake Bikeability Levels 2 and 3.

Why would you ride so close in front of a car? Risk compensation from wearing a hard hat certainly seems like a possibility.

 

[classic33]

Assuming the car wasn't doing something incredible like 60mph, if you have passed so close in front of a car emerging from a side road that it could pull out into your path then, sorry, but I feel you have failed to ride so you could stop within what you could see to be clear (rather than within what you couldn't yet see as obstructed) and should retake Bikeability Levels 2 and 3.

Why would you ride so close in front of a car? Risk compensation from wearing a hard hat certainly seems like a possibility.

How do you deal with a blind entrance, where the driver can't see what is on the road before reversing out? Or deal with a driver that decides to overtake, then cuts across you to turn left. The actions of someone else has put you into a situation outside of your control.

It's more victim blaming than "risk compensation". Something that is becoming more common, to support a view that the person using it holds but can't validate by other means.

There's times when what's written in books just doesn't cover the situation. Much like your dislike of the highway code and the wording used as to what cyclists should be doing on the roads.

 

[Chief Broom]

Assuming the car wasn't doing something incredible like 60mph, if you have passed so close in front of a car emerging from a side road that it could pull out into your path then, sorry, but I feel you have failed to ride so you could stop within what you could see to be clear (rather than within what you couldn't yet see as obstructed) and should retake Bikeability Levels 2 and 3.

Why would you ride so close in front of a car? Risk compensation from wearing a hard hat certainly seems like a possibility.

This example was on a motorcycle not a cycle -i should have made that clear, Some drivers approaching a main road from a side road will barely slow down, just a quick glance and drive into the path of another vehicle. The same on roundabouts ie hardly slow down and straight out. To avoid such drivers everyone would have to drive around at 5mph. Having ridden motorcycles for close on 40yrs i know all about pre-empting trouble and driving/riding to survive but occasionally you just get 'torpedoed'.

ps thats my last utterance on this thread as i can sense theres folks who have 'belief systems' they want to foist or 'shore up' rather like Voltaires 'Candide'.

 

[mjr]

It's a shame that they seem to have stopped doing that survey in 2008, as I think that attitudes have changed a lot since then. There is more emphasis on cycling to school for example, and it's common to see young children on scooters or bikes with helmets, thus normalising it.

Didn't the government stop paying for the surveys because they weren't giving the desired answer of majority usage to enable legislation? And I am rather suspicious of the growth trend because we can't be sure how the methodology changed over time. I have seen later estimates from London showing even higher rates, but on closer inspection, they were small samples and sited to avoid the protected cycleways.

Helmets might be normalised for young children but that of course means that older children don't want to keep wearing their baby hats.

 

[icowden]

Helmets might be normalised for young children but that of course means that older children don't want to keep wearing their baby hats.

Actually, I don't think it does. I see plenty of secondary kids around here cycling to school with helmets on.

 

[mjr]

Actually, I don't think it does. I see plenty of secondary kids around here cycling to school with helmets on.

That's as maybe, but we already know from your "When I am cycling, the majority of people that I see are wearing helmets" that your part of Surrey may be the cyclist-hating helmet-using capital of the country, whereas when I am cycling in Norfolk and Cambridgeshire, the majority of people I see aren't using helmets and that becomes an overwhelming majority in Cambridge and Peterborough (but not yet Norwich, curiously). I'd would be far more shocked to do a whole ride around school-kicking-out time without seeing most teenagers riding without hats than I would be to see one pull a wheelie (they need reminding that oncoming riders can't see their headlight if it's pointing at the clouds...)

I don't think we can safely extrapolate from either Slurrey or Cambridge to the whole country. The reality is probably something in between.