dog bite

[presta]

As it runs on 2 AA batteries it's harmless to humans.

If it's harmless to humans it's because it's been designed to be. The battery itself has enough energy to kill if it's applied in the right way.

The spray only need be a "noxious substance" in order for it to be a S.5.1.b firearm, and its hardly a breath of fresh air if it repels dogs. A water pistol filled with, say, bleach would be a 5.1.b firearm.

What about all the everyday aerosols in the shops?

 

[ExBrit]

If it's harmless to humans it's because it's been designed to be. The battery itself has enough energy to kill if it's applied in the right way.

What about all the everyday aerosols in the shops?

Or you could bring your pet skunk on your rides.

 

[Drago]

If it's harmless to humans it's because it's been designed to be...

So they say, and it might well be. But over the years I've seen plenty such claims that turned out to be untrue. It could be legit, but I've yet to find any spray for self defence from either human or animal attack towpaths bore scrutiny in a court.

I've also seen claims on everything from such sprays through to horse riders hi vis tabard with claims like "approved by such and such police force" etc and not one or those is true either.

What about all the everyday aerosols in the shops?

what about them?

Even, any, hairspray becomes an offensive weapon if you carry it with intent to to use it as a weapon. Of course proving that is a separate matter altogether, but that is nevertheless how the law goes on that one. Google mens rea and then be confused and astonished that anyone anywhere ever gets arrested for anything.

As for legitimate aerosols that might be noxious - you wouldn't want to be sprayed with fly killer, after all - you need to bear in mind that I didn't write the law, that the law often contradicts itself, and is so full of holes you could drive a bus through it. That's where case law comes in, but that is a can of worms for you to gen up on yourself.

Put it this way - you be my guest by all means, but I wouldn't carry any aerosol with any intent to defend myself from any type of attack, not even deodourant. If it goes wrong it isn't you, me or an advert that decides what is legal - its the the Court, and from what I've seen over the years the chances of success are essentially zero. And lack of success in defending on a firearms charge is very bad ju ju.

To summarise - it might be legit, they may even think its legit, but the consequences if a court decides otherwise are so severe I wouldn't chance it. If you think otherwise then all power to you.

 

[davy]

Drago....I would be interested in your thoughts on my intention of carrying an UNMODIFIED traditional cycle pump on bike rides ...bought it yesterday in Halfords £5

 

[Drago]

Nothing wrong with that. Every cyclist needs to pump up their tyres from time to time

 

[steveindenmark]

Is there not a by law that says all dogs must be kept on a lead in the park?

 

[davy]

an update for you re this event.........I today.... Saturday ,, spoke to the police a second time....they again said things which I wrote down this time ,,, for EG......it was only being boisterous ........its only a pup , and its teeth arent fully formed............ your injury is deemed by the police dog team as minor, its just a little nip.................. you have aggravated the situation by moving the bike around..........perhaps in future you need to assess the situation more fully .......... are the cycling organisations experts in dog behaviour, perhaps YOU need to speak with some dog experts...our dog team are very well versed in dog behaviour ............... unbelievable !!!!!!

I will pursue this via civil action.....if only to satisfy myself that I am in the right ...and i have gained some sort of justice.......... for me it highlights how "difficult" dealing with the police is !!!!

 

[Pale Rider]

Is there not a by law that says all dogs must be kept on a lead in the park?

Often the stipulation is dogs must be 'under control'.

Which brings up the vexatious question of whether a dog has to be on a lead to be under control.

I would say 'yes', but plenty of doggie folk would give me an argument.

 

[davy]

Often the stipulation is dogs must be 'under control'.

Which brings up the vexatious question of whether a dog has to be on a lead to be under control.

I would say 'yes', but plenty of doggie folk would give me an argument.

I would agree totally......a sheep dog is not on a leaad , but my goodness they are trained and under control...to my mind if a dog isnt that well controlled then a lead must be the way to go.................... common sense to me...but hey Im not qualified !!!!

 

[presta]

So they say, and it might well be. But over the years I've seen plenty such claims that turned out to be untrue. It could be legit, but I've yet to find any spray for self defence from either human or animal attack towpaths bore scrutiny in a court.

My comments related to the electric fly swatter, not a spray, and the suggestion I was responding to was that it must be harmless because it runs off AA batteries.

I didn't say it was harmless, I said that if it's harmless it's because of the circuit design, not the fact that it runs off a couple of AAs. One AA cell contains enough energy to kill a human, if it's applied using the right circuitry.

Put it this way - you be my guest by all means, but I wouldn't carry any aerosol with any intent to defend myself from any type of attack, not even deodourant. If it goes wrong it isn't you, me or an advert that decides what is legal - its the the Court, and from what I've seen over the years the chances of success are essentially zero. And lack of success in defending on a firearms charge is very bad ju ju.

I wasn't planning on carrying anything as a weapon, it's just interesting what can be construed as a weapon. I seem to recall an attempt to prosecute a tradesman for carrying an offensive weapon because his van was full of tools, and a long forum thread at the time debating the risk for cyclists who carry tools.

 

[Drago]

Yeah, tradesmen can fall foul sometimes. Stanley knives are fine going to and from work, but being a carpet layer won't save you if you're stopped at 11pm on a Saturday night with one in your vehicle.

Fortunately my fists are registered as deadly weapons, so I'm covered at all times

 

[a.twiddler]

an update for you re this event.........I today.... Saturday ,, spoke to the police a second time....they again said things which I wrote down this time ,,, for EG......it was only being boisterous ........its only a pup , and its teeth arent fully formed............ your injury is deemed by the police dog team as minor, its just a little nip.................. you have aggravated the situation by moving the bike around..........perhaps in future you need to assess the situation more fully .......... are the cycling organisations experts in dog behaviour, perhaps YOU need to speak with some dog experts...our dog team are very well versed in dog behaviour ............... unbelievable !!!!!!

I will pursue this via civil action.....if only to satisfy myself that I am in the right ...and i have gained some sort of justice.......... for me it highlights how "difficult" dealing with the police is !!!!

Obviously not on the side of the victim. You would almost think they were trying to wrap this case up asap to meet one of their targets (but they wouldn't do that, would they???). Or they're supporting their officer who dealt with your case even if they might have their own doubts about his actions, as they've already started down that road.

Maybe you need to get your ducks in a row ready to ask to speak to someone more senior. Perhaps you could get a medical opinion on your alleged "little nip". The dog team might be experts on dogs, but are they medical experts? Call their bluff and talk to some dog experts yourself. A local vet maybe, or perhaps they can give you some leads (pardon the pun). And some actual legal advice wouldn't go amiss, since the police are so dismissive of cycling organisations' (or apparently anybody's) opinions on dogs. I'm pretty sure all this has been going around in your head and maybe dragging you down since it happened -what might you have done differently, what would you do if something like it happened again- like anyone would.

As for the dog owner, since you have the witnesses and have had first aid and a medical intervention, get some actual legal advice as above about pursuing a legal case against him. "Nice people" or not, you're the victim here. If you do start a legal case, it might drag on with counter accusations and unpleasantness if the dog owner contests it so it's not a quick fix. The justice system is not always an uplifting experience.

I have a feeling that this might be one of those situations where nobody comes out ahead in the end but if you were to get a quick decision in your favour from a court it might lighten your mind a bit.

 

[RoadRider400]

I'm actually quite surprised and a bit disappointed just how many people are willing to stick the boot in to an animal.

I suppose the above will give the K9 SAS another chance to regurgitate the devil dog scenario and the right to defend yourself, which is obviously true, but lifting your feet to an animal is not the answer.

Did you miss the photograph of the aftermath of the dog bike in the post right above yours?

Nobody is suggesting booting an innocent animal for no reason. But if it becomes a choice of hoofing a dog or getting bitten then it's a no brainer.

 

[a.twiddler]

Sometimes one must choose the lesser of two evils.

 

[RoadRider400]

yes thank for the input....I have returned the spray and feel much happier for having done so...... I will just carry the standard pump poking out of my wee rucksack and be aware that its there in case etc.......there cant be anything which states I cant use that if needed..........but if I came up against the heat who said I shouldnt use my bike as a barrier then who knows LOL

Have you ever got mosquito spray in your eyes? Stings like a bugger and probably reasonable to carry around on a summers day.