Don't go up there!

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bianchi1

Guru
Location
malverns
Always expect the unexpected! ;)

What I was suggesting with the pavement comment is that at least there's an emergency option.

The trouble starts when you start adding the unexpected to your emergency option. No one expects to get their shoes trapped in a pedal...or a trouser leg in the chain ring, yet if this happens as you are enacting your planned escape jump?

As you say...Always expect the unexpected.
 

bianchi1

Guru
Location
malverns
I think the problem is we're arguing semantics rather than road safety. I'm pretty sure if we all planned for massive improbabilities then it'd get silly, but feel free to ask for an apology after your next buzzard attack.

It's happened to me last year. I think it didn't like my helmet! I don't have a plan how to stop it happen again but I do check the sky now and again when there are lots about:ohmy:
 

w00hoo_kent

One of the 64K
It's happened to me last year. I think it didn't like my helmet! I don't have a plan how to stop it happen again but I do check the sky now and again when there are lots about:ohmy:
Can I suggest no longer stapling starlings to the top of your lid? I presume you were too close to a nest at the wrong time of year or some such. That or you've weight weenied sufficiently that now you fall in the prey parameters (in which case in some ways you've won cycling.) If it's something likely in your area, then having a think about what to do if it happens isn't a bad thing. I currently count myself as highly unlikely to suffer buzzard attack.
 

StuartG

slower but further
Location
SE London
There are three posts in a row above this one that mention 'escape plan'.
As a general rule, if a manover involves a planned escape route...I don't do it!
I agree. I noticed that my decision to 'go up the inside' was influenced by the presence or not of railings. Implicitly I was assuming an open pavement as an escape route.

I thought about it a bit more. The vehicle makes an unexpected move to the left. Yes there is room on the pavement but how to get there? Bikes don't move sideways, swerving means mounting a kerb at a shallow angle that is likely to throw me. I don't do bunny hops and its not a good way to start learning. I decided the open pavement was as much a danger to my riding than railings which are more obviously dangerous. I've modified my riding decisions as a consequence.
 

Hip Priest

Veteran
One of the craziest things I've seen a cyclist do. The lorry driver was impatient too of course. All the more reason to give him a wide berth!
 

slowmotion

Quite dreadful
Location
lost somewhere
I wouldn't have gone down there. There's nowhere to bail out to. Even if the traffic is stationary, the lorry driver might see a motorbike coming up the outside and decide to nudge over to the left to give him some more room. It's not that far-fetched a scenario. I winced watching that clip.
 

Wobblers

Euthermic
Location
Minkowski Space
I'm not recommending the manoeuvre. I'm just pointing out that people seem to invest a ot in the simplistic mantra that one must NEVER ride up the inside of a truck, when in some cases it isn't actually especially dangerous. Me, I like an escape route in situations like that, but I often make manoeuvres at junctions I know well that others would consider dangerous. My mum appears to consider everything involving bikes and traffic to be dangerous.

Well, fine, you think about things and have a plan B should something go wrong or unexpected happen. And yes, in certain circumstances it is quite safe to filter down the inside of an HGV. But do you really think that those cyclists squeezing down the inside of that tipper truck gave their actions any consideration? To me, it more appears as a "must get to the front no matter the consequences" sort of mentality.

The mantra "never go up the inside of a truck" may be simplistic, but it does have at least one advantage: it is a simple message, simple enough that even those who don't appreciate that filtering requires planning, observation and patience will understanding. In short, it is a message that is unlikely to do harm. You could argue that the design of HGVs are not fit for busy urban streets, and I'd be the first to agree with you - but the driver is still human, and will make errors occasionally, like we all do. It seems unwise to put yourself in the position where you're relying on someone else to not make a mistake, not give a **** or simply be distracted for a moment for your own safety.
 

Wobblers

Euthermic
Location
Minkowski Space
Same here. And going to the left of this truck when the cyclist can see the traffic up ahead is stationary might be considered reasonable because the lorry isn't indicating left.

Why isn't it though? Could it be because the driver isn't bothered about letting other road users know his (making another reasonable assumption) intentions? Why would that be? It was interesting to me that the moment the first cyclist appeared past the lorry on the left, the driver put his indicator on - reminded suddenly that we all need to interact with each other on the road perhaps? (And probably, pace those of us who live in Denmark, acutely aware that crushing cyclists in London is giving tipper truck drivers a bit of a bad name.)

There was scarcely any room for the cyclist on the left. Going down there is making the assumption that the driver's not an idiot. Worse, there was plenty of room to filter on the other lane - that's much safer, and at least one cyclist did just that. It is not "reasonable" as a much safer alternative existed!
 

Wobblers

Euthermic
Location
Minkowski Space
Don't be ridiculous. Looking at that layout, if the truck's not indicating it would be a perfectly reasonable assumption that it is heading on to the right - and going down the lefthand side would be a safe option. Or are cyclists meant to be mindreaders as well as taking responsibility for other drivers' lack of care?

So it's ridiculous to assume that motorists will do silly things, and adjust your behaviour accordingly? Fine, I'll continue to be ridiculous then. And safer.

Oh, and I haven't at any point made any excuses for the tipper driver's behaviour, so I'll thank you kindly for not making any assumptions that I did.
 
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