Driving in a burka

[quassleberry]

As other people have said a bad driver is just that whether they're wearing full Muslim headwear or nothing.

It is those who feel the need to permanently wear a baseball cap & hoodie whilst driving that I will avoid at all costs, in my experience as a cyclist, pedestrian & passenger they have no regard for anyone or anything.

 

[MacB]

the onus is on a driver to ensure that their vision isn't impaired whether it's funny shades at night, floppy hats, weird hairdos, hoodies or religious dress. If it's a burka then the driver needs to ensure it's fitted in such a way as not to impair vision, if that's done then no 'motoring' reason not to wear it.

 

[slowmotion]

Absolutely MacB.

 

[jefmcg]

What an obnoxious character you appear to be.

Really? I think he makes a good point, especially as you acknowledge you see the same behaviour from people not wearing a burka.

I went cycling with a friend who doesn't normally cycle on roads. As we were travelling on a London A road with no cars (Sunday morning), a family steps on the road in front of us without looking - as happens constantly. Bell rings, they step back, no biggie. Later she tells me "black people have no road sense" - they were black. At least she based this on 100% of the people who had stepped in front of her without looking when cycling were black.

 

[MrHappyCyclist]

Really? I think he makes a good point, especially as you acknowledge you see the same behaviour from people not wearing a burka.

I agree that he makes a good point and, had he not chosen to make it in such an abusive manner, I would have considered it a very good response to my original question and useful contribution to the discussion.

As regards my last sentence, there is no need to point out that I said that; I do actually know perfectly well what I said. However, the assertion: "Y sometimes happens in the absence of X, therefore X never causes Y to happen" is totally fallacious.

The problem we have here is precisely the issue that I mentioned to Arch earlier about existence of some obnoxious, prejudiced bigots making it difficult to have a civilised discussion of certain issues. Had it not been for the fact that this mode of dress is associated with a religion, I suspect User3143 would not even have bothered to come out of his self-imposed exile and write a message containing personal attacks based on his own bigotted assumptions.

Having asked a completely unbiased question in my original post, I am seeing responses that lead me think that it probably isn't really a significant problem. Unfortunately, Lee's response isn't one of those.

Notice, Lee, that I managed write that without a single swear word; even ones that are disguised by using abbreviations. It isn't that difficult.

 

[sunnyjim]

Im more concerned with the driving ability of people wearing flat caps.

 

[Mawsley]

I bet she was driving an Audi.

 

[MrHappyCyclist]

[QUOTE 1372317"]
I'm confused, exactly how am I a bigot?
[/quote]

Because you made unfounded assumptions about people based on your prejudices rather than on what you actually saw. (You have also reinforced that below.) You have accused people here, including myself, of being "racists" by comparing them to this "Steve from Bermondsey ", when you have no evidence for that.

[QUOTE 1372317"]
In addition to the bit in bold don't you think this your OP?
Assuming that people can't see as well when they are driving a car just because they are wearing a Burka.
[/quote]

Not at all. I have made no such assumption; you just made that up because of your own prejudices. I stated very clearly in my original post that I didn't know either way because I have never worn one myself, but your prejudice caused you to filter that out. I even included in a last sentence, in the interests of "political correctness" and balance, the fact that I also see bad drivers without burkas, but your prejudice caused you to filter that out as well when forming your bigoted opinion. (You did then bring it back in so that you could use it as the basis of a completely fallacious logical assertion.)

I asked a perfectly reasonable question about whether the wearing of something that covers up the face, leaving only a small slit for the wearer to see through might affect the ability of a driver to see properly. But your prejudices led you to assume that this was some kind of racial attack, as evidenced in your long, abusive message. That is bigotry.

As an aside, this is not in any case a racial issue at all as the wearing of a burka is a personal choice, which does have some religious connection but is not a racial characteristic of anyone (such as having a different coloured skin). It would be totally inappropriate to assert that someone lacked road sense because they were black; it is quite appropriate to ask whether someone's ability to make observations when driving might be affected by their wearing something that almost totally covers their face.

 

[gambatte]

[QUOTE 1372320"]
If the driver was wearing a hoodie with the hood up, would you have still started the OP? I doubt it.
[/quote]


Seems like an assumption to me.

It reminds me of an discussion I had over on STW a few years ago. I asked a question about people who were ‘handicapped’. Someone jumped up and started going on about “you can’t use that term, it’s not PC. It’s not ‘handicapped’ it’s ‘disabled’”

Ended up with a couple of guys coming on to say they were the object of such labels. They preferred ‘handicapped’ as it inferred something they could better. As in with golf, you can improve your handicap.

What they found more offensive was the way people jumped up and ‘defended them’.

Chill and check out ‘Avenue Q’

 

[MrHappyCyclist]

[QUOTE 1372320"]
If the driver was wearing a hoodie with the hood up, would you have still started the OP? I doubt it.
[/quote]
There you go again. You really can't help yourself, can you? Of course I would.

EDIT. On seconds thoughts, I probably wouldn't need to ask the question, because it's pretty obvious that a hoodie probably would obstruct the driver's view, as pointed out already in this topic.

 

[Mawsley]

[QUOTE 1372320"]
If the driver was wearing a hoodie with the hood up, would you have still started the OP? I doubt it.
[/quote]

That's because they drive BMWs; this was an Audi.

 

[gambatte]

That's because they drive BMWs; this was an Audi.

BMW or Audi - both European cars, now if he’d been driving an American car with the hood up......

 

[MrHappyCyclist]

That's because they drive BMWs; this was an Audi.

LOL. For the record, it was a Toyota.

 

[StuartG]

Sorry User3143 - I saw your post as ill judged. I can see what you are getting at and have no problem with it being raised. But you were deliberately confrontational and a bit big in the assumption department.

Something, perhaps, to be welcomed in P&L. Here, however, it appears to annoy people you might be wishing to convince. Its also that sort of post that can make discussion of sensitive subjects even more difficult.

Trust you are more relaxed when riding ...

 

[Rhythm Thief]

... whether the wearing of something that covers up the face, leaving only a small slit for the wearer to see through might affect the ability of a driver to see properly.

Like, for instance, a motorcycle helmet.

I drove my windscreenless 2CV around most of last summer with a buff pulled up to just below my eyes, a woolly hat pulled down over my eyebrows, and safety specs. I never had a problem seeing anything. The situation in the OP is down to the woman not looking properly, no more or less than that.