E-MTB - Errosion damage ?

[fossyant]

@fossyant, anything like this in use up here?
View attachment 625286

There is very similar advice given to UK riders, through all sorts of avenues.Don't forget, I'm not 'really' a MTB'er, I cut my cloth on the road, but have MTB'ed for over 30 years, along with the other guys I ride regularly with. I also ride with a local MTB group, who again follow the 'rules', one or two are eMTB'ers but one guy uses his to keep up with us as he's quite 'old'.

[Some think..] this thread is anti ebikers, and turned it into anti off road cycling. It's not, it's about a growing group of folk that aren't real cyclists that are jumping on these machines and ripping about the place because they can. They don't have the same regard for the surroundings. ... Many eMTB riders are cyclists but there is a large growing group that don't give a stuff and are just in it for the fun, which is fine, provided they stick to the trails, and not tear them up. This is what we saw and regularly see these days. [...]

[...] In this thread, most people have accepted that there is an issue, most of us have seen it first hand. We're starting to see more and more 'full' electric MX bikes as well -same bunch of folk.

It's a problem. Places like Penmachno and Gwydir don't even have parking charges, so they rely upon volunteers and people popping a few quid in the honesty box to maintain the trails, without them there would be no trails (oh and these trails have been there probably 30 years...).

 

[dan_bo]

There is very similar advice given to UK riders, through all sorts of avenues.Don't forget, I'm not 'really' a MTB'er, I cut my cloth on the road, but have MTB'ed for over 30 years, along with the other guys I ride regularly with. I also ride with a local MTB group, who again follow the 'rules', one or two are eMTB'ers but one guy uses his to keep up with us as he's quite 'old'.

..... this thread is anti ebikers, and turned it into anti off road cycling. It's not, it's about a growing group of folk that aren't real cyclists that are jumping on these machines and ripping about the place because they can. They don't have the same regard for the surroundings. ..... Many eMTB riders are cyclists but there is a large growing group that don't give a stuff and are just in it for the fun, which is fine, provided they stick to the trails, and not tear them up. This is what we saw and regularly see these days. ...

In this thread, most people have accepted that there is an issue, most of us have seen it first hand. We're starting to see more and more 'full' electric MX bikes as well -same bunch of folk.

It's a problem. Places like Penmachno and Gwydir don't even have parking charges, so they rely upon volunteers and people popping a few quid in the honesty box to maintain the trails, without them there would be no trails (oh and these trails have been there probably 30 years...).

Articulate for this time of day.

 

[fossyant]

As said, its part of the cycle network here……it wont be downgraded to footpath

Bridleways and canal paths are part of the cycleways up here too in Englandshire (Peaks) and form a large part of my off road routes into the Peaks - using paths which permit cycles.

 

[fossyant]

I remember having to print out and 'sign' a 'permit' to cycle on the canals - it was free, and just needed you to pop on the Canal and Riverside Trust's website (or what they were called back then - British Waterways ?), and log your details. you were expected to carry this. Didn't serve much of a purpose, but I suppose it allowed the organisation to monitor demand. Think is, it wasn't well known, and only those of us who were aware of the rules did it. You had to do it annually from recollection. Fortunately, this has been dropped now.

MTB'ers are well aware of the issue with using footpaths, and in general avoid it, some times it's not possible, and that's where you either push the bike, or take it very steady and aren't doing it at Peak times, but in general it's to be avoided as it just hisses everyone off.

 

[fossyant]

I do keep, and keep failing, to keep the thread on topic about a 'growing' group of 'riders' using said machines to rip it up. It is a problem and it's not all e-bikers, but there is a big group of them. As someone has said, they suspect it's ex. MX riders. Most of them just aren't 'interested' in the cycling/fitness side.

Some 'obvious' examples.

Guy gets his very expensive top of the range eMTB out (probably over £8k - Santa Cruz. He's dressed in waterproof pants, a jacket and big wellies. Other lad, full waterproof 'wet gear' - it was 13c and not raining. Even one of the group said 'are you not hot'. He said I'm not even trying ! Llandegla a couple of years back, dad dressed in cycling kit on an e-MTB. Two older teens or young 20s, his sons, both on electric MX bikes (which are banned) - and that's at a trail centre.

Most e-MTBers are in appropriate clothing.

I'll keep trying to keep the thread on track. Please stop bringing up some peoples views about lazy etc, which I know people have strong views. I know a fair number of e-MTBers who use them to enable them to get out, one has even sold his as it was too quick and he got fed up of waiting for everyone. Others have needed them to enable them to enjoy the rides. It's a very different bunch to those turning up at trail centres, and then just ripping it up. These folk are the problem, as we will lose these 'facilities' as they aren't well funded - there in lies the issue.

There are places far better suited for these folk. Llandegla can cope with it as it's pretty commercialised, as is Antur Stiniog, Bike Park Wales etc etc. Some are uplift only, but BPW is ideal for e-bikes as you don't need the uplift.

Places that are Forestry Commission owned can't support this type of 'riding' - there is either no charge or a small charge to park there, usually no facilities (you are lucky if there is a toilet). The trails are old, and basically just patched up when there is storm damage. When a trial get's churned up, you should either still stick to it, or hike the bike past the obstruction. Not take to an off piste route, which is what we saw in abundance. On a particularly boggy section, these 'guys' just ripped it along side the trail, it wasn't a route a standard bike could reasonably take (a fair few of us pushed). there in lies the problem - just because 'you can' doesn't mean you should.

What ruins it is when people are avoiding what's called 'features'. You usually get two lines, one to go over the feature, be it a jump or a drop, then another line which is for those that don't want to risk it - e.g, haven't ridden it before. There was one such section at the top of a climb where there was a drop off, but due to the amount of off piste avoidance of the feature, I got to the top and just thought, where the bloody hell am I supposed to go. What should have been 3-4 foot wide, was over 20 feet - this is erosion.

Same issues apply when walking, stick to the routes.

so to re-iterate, there is a growing 'group/type' who have access to some very powerful machines that are not respecting the countryside. They aren't 'cyclists' as such, that is obvious. This is what the thread is about.

 

[jowwy]

I do keep, and keep failing, to keep the thread on topic about a 'growing' group of 'riders' using said machines to rip it up. It is a problem and it's not all e-bikers, but there is a big group of them. As someone has said, they suspect it's ex. MX riders. Most of them just aren't 'interested' in the cycling/fitness side.

Some 'obvious' examples.

Guy gets his very expensive top of the range eMTB out (probably over £8k - Santa Cruz. 1. He's dressed in waterproof pants, a jacket and big wellies. Other lad, full waterproof 'wet gear' - it was 13c and not raining. Even one of the group said 'are you not hot'. He said I'm not even trying ! Llandegla a couple of years back, dad dressed in cycling kit on an e-MTB. Two older teens or young 20s, his sons, both on electric MX bikes (which are banned) - and that's at a trail centre.


I'll keep trying to keep the thread on track. 2. Please stop bringing up some peoples views about lazy etc, which I know people have strong views. I know a fair number of e-MTBers who use them to enable them to get out, one has even sold his as it was too quick and he got fed up of waiting for everyone. Others have needed them to enable them to enjoy the rides. It's a very different bunch to those turning up at trail centres, and then just ripping it up. These folk are the problem, as we will lose these 'facilities' as they aren't well funded - there in lies the issue.

3. There are places far better suited for these folk. Llandegla can cope with it as it's pretty commercialised, as is Antur Stiniog, Bike Park Wales etc etc. Some are uplift only, but BPW is ideal for e-bikes as you don't need the uplift.

Places that are Forestry Commission owned can't support this type of 'riding' - there is either no charge or a small charge to park there, usually no facilities (you are lucky if there is a toilet). The trails are old, and basically just patched up when there is storm damage. When a trial get's churned up, you should either still stick to it, or hike the bike past the obstruction. Not take to an off piste route, which is what we saw in abundance. On a particularly boggy section, these 'guys' just ripped it along side the trail, it wasn't a route a standard bike could reasonably take (a fair few of us pushed). there in lies the problem - just because 'you can' doesn't mean you should.

What ruins it is when people are avoiding what's called 'features'. You usually get two lines, one to go over the feature, be it a jump or a drop, then another line which is for those that don't want to risk it - e.g, haven't ridden it before. There was one such section at the top of a climb where there was a drop off, but due to the amount of off piste avoidance of the feature, I got to the top and just thought, where the bloody hell am I supposed to go. What should have been 3-4 foot wide, was over 20 feet - this is erosion.

Same issues apply when walking, stick to the routes.

so to re-iterate, there is a growing 'group/type' who have access to some very powerful machines that are not respecting the countryside. 4. They aren't 'cyclists' as such, that is obvious. This is what the thread is about.

ok i will try my best to put my views into the highlighted sections above

1. A cyclist whether riding a road, mtb or ebike has the right to wear whatever he wants when out cycling, you have no right to judge them based on what they are wearing even if they do say they are " not tryin that hard" , we all know Ebikes have the ability for people to ride in turbo made to make things easier and its their right to use that mode of they desire.

2. I will stop bringing up or highlighting people's views on Ebikers...when they stop posting them in the first place

3. Its not up to you to decide were people can and cant ride.

4. You also have no right to decide if someone is a cyclist or not based on what they wear or ride.......

 

[fossyant]

3. Its not up to you to decide were people can and cant ride.

4. You also have no right to decide if someone is a cyclist or not based on what they wear or ride.......

3. This follows on from what's happening. There are many Advocacy groups in MTB. There is a "where and when" about riding bikes. We shouldn't be ripping the place up. Remember some of us have been riding on and off road all our lives. - I don't go riding across some farmer's field just because I can, or up a footpath just because. None of us should.

E.g. There is a voluntary ban on bikes between May and October between 8am and 5pm on Snowdon. 99% of cyclists stick to this for obvious reasons.

4. The dress code - no but it was fairly obvious these folk didn't give a sh1t - you could dress like Team Sky for all I care, or cycle in jeans - you are nit picking and avoiding the issue - I was giving examples of what I saw - you've never ventured out into the wilds or a trail centre.

We've got folk dumping punctured tubes, littering, ripping up peak bogs etc etc. anyone who is serious takes care of the countryside.

There is a growing group of people who are using certain bikes that are causing damage, a minority. It's obvious they aren't 'serious' about our hobby/sport - I've got every right to complain about it, and I've reported exactly what I've seen - you can tell them a mile off and lo and behold, that's exactly how they ride, with little or no respect. You've not seen this as you don't MTB.

The MTB group I ride with would pull anyone up who littered, or god forbid ripped it up across a peat moor. We even make sure we avoid footpaths - there are usually a fair old group of riders, somewhat intimidating so care it taken.

We once 'had' to use a 100 yard section of footpath to link a bridleway to a road, there wasn't any other option, just the way it was. We knew this, so rode at walking pace. The 'footpath' was about 20 foot wide, and ran by the side of a river, and linked directly into a car park - it was also smooth. As we got onto said road, a 'elderly female' walker came running over, in the middle of the road and was exceptionally abusive. There was no-one on the path at the time. This is why we should take care where we ride

 

[fossyant]

that paragraph isn't factually incorrect either as Fossy has called ebikers tools and idiots within this thread

That is incorrect as I've said certain groups on certain bikes are tools and idiots, stop bending what's been said. I haven't at any point said e-bikers, all of them are idiot and tools - so get that fact straight. ....

As said there is a growing bunch of folk out there to just rip it up without respect to a facility that has limited maintenance, and can be in environmentally sensitive areas, so sticking to the trail is important, just like sticking to a footpath is too.

 

[fossyant]

ebikers pissing in the woods

Come on, everyone 'widdles' in the woods. There are no toilets. Just make sure you have a poop before you leave home, otherwise it's hoping you've got baby wipes in the car somewhere !

And you can't charge your bike, never mind your Garmin as there is no leccy !

 

[jowwy]

Come on, everyone 'widdles' in the woods. There are no toilets. Just make sure you have a poop before you leave home, otherwise it's hoping you've got baby wipes in the car somewhere !

And you can't charge your bike, never mind your Garmin as there is no leccy !

i did say at trail centres

 

[fossyant]

i did say at trail centres

There isn't any leccy ! Only for the cafe if lucky. You'd be pushed to be allowed to charge your phone (bit pointless also as there is rarely any signal).

 

[jowwy]

There isn't any leccy ! Only for the cafe if lucky. You'd be pushed to be allowed to charge your phone (bit pointless also as there is rarely any signal).

isnt there charging points at BPW and forest of dean trail centres?? i think theres also charging points down here at cwmcarn forest drive for leccy bikes......just need to bring your charger along, but the car park is right by the cafe area, so that would be ok.

 

[Pale Rider]

Have any of you MTBers ridden a legal eMTB?

They are no balls of fire, and are handicapped in climbing by extra weight,

The notion they could cause significant extra damage in comparison to an MTB is hard to take.

All the bikes use the same tyres, and once traction is lost, well, a spinning back wheel is a spinning back wheel.

 

[fossyant]

isnt there charging points at BPW and forest of dean trail centres?? i think theres also charging points down here at cwmcarn forest drive for leccy bikes......just need to bring your charger along, but the car park is right by the cafe area, so that would be ok.

I didn't know, I could charge my phone when there is no signal.

Ah but BPW is probably a great place for e-MTB's as it saves you a fortune in uplift costs - you can whiz up and be on the downs again. These are very different from the likes of Gisburn etc, which have no facilities and little maintenance. BPW is like a playground -

 

[jowwy]

I didn't know, I could charge my phone when there is no signal.

Ah but BPW is probably a great place for e-MTB's as it saves you a fortune in uplift costs - you can whiz up and be on the downs again. These are very different from the likes of Gisburn etc, which have no facilities and little maintenance. BPW is like a playground -

yeh i got two mates that go there regular

one an ex semi pro Road racer and one an Ex downhill veteran mtb champion.....they both now ride ebikes only