E-scooters to be allowed on public roads

[captain nemo1701]

Nope, they are proving that there is no point shutting the door once the horse has bolted.

Rules should have been established years ago when these things were first coming out and being sold as toys. Now it's too late to try and put them back in the box.

There are rules but arrogance allows people to ignore them (plus zippo police enforcement in some areas)

We could try:

1. Import ban to strangle supply, they're built overseas. They need spare parts too.
2. Increase fines for riding out in public. It is breaking the law, so enforce the bl***y thing.
3. Do what Kent police are doing, initial warning, then seize & crush.

I have zero sympathy with anyone who flouts the law designed for public safety by riding one of these darned things on pavements at 20mph simply to save personal effort.

Nope, they are proving that there is no point shutting the door once the horse has bolted.

Rules should have been established years ago when these things were first coming out and being sold as toys. Now it's too late to try and put them back in the box.

They were illegal the moment they appeared on the street.

As a cyclist, I don't want to get in a collision by some fool racing on the souped-up expensive 40mph versions. I see a guy on the B2B path most days on one of these decked out in full PPE, motorcycle helmet, gloves, knee pads etc...he's not going for a 15mph pootle...Cycle paths were built for those who want to cycle and appreciate the health benefits, not lazy folk who'll do anything to avoid effort yet crave speed and convenience. And those doing 15mph on pavements....grrrr

 

[Drago]

no need to when brand new. A visual inspection for obvious damage is fine, though they will periodically be pat tested. I think we do every 3 years.

I think perhaps my trademark sarkiness wasn't cranked up enough to be heard in that post.

 

[Alex321]

There are rules but arrogance allows people to ignore them (plus zippo police enforcement in some areas)

We could try:

1. Import ban to strangle supply, they're built overseas. They need spare parts too.

They aren't illegal to own (or to use on private land), so that is reallyu a non-starter.

2. Increase fines for riding out in public. It is breaking the law, so enforce the bl***y thing.

Increasing fines will make no difference. It is enforcement that matters. Various studies have shown that it is the perceived risk of getting caught that deters people from crime much more than the level of penalty if they do.

3. Do what Kent police are doing, initial warning, then seize & crush.

Yes. This would make a significant difference.

 

[captain nemo1701]

They aren't illegal to own (or to use on private land), so that is reallyu a non-starter.



Increasing fines will make no difference. It is enforcement that matters. Various studies have shown that it is the perceived risk of getting caught that deters people from crime much more than the level of penalty if they do.



Yes. This would make a significant difference.

I don't agree with the first comment. 99.999% aren't used on private land, so few would so yes, we can ban them.

 

[Alex321]

I don't agree with the first comment. 99.999% aren't used on private land, so few would so yes, we can ban them.

We could ban them entirely, yes.

But my first comment was 100% correct. Unless and util we ban them entirely, we can't reasonably ban the import, regardless of whether most are used illegally.

 

[classic33]

They aren't illegal to own (or to use on private land), so that is reallyu a non-starter.



Increasing fines will make no difference. It is enforcement that matters. Various studies have shown that it is the perceived risk of getting caught that deters people from crime much more than the level of penalty if they do.



Yes. This would make a significant difference.

To be legal for use on private land, you require the landowners permission.
A carpark is private land, but without the landowners permission you can't use one to ride an electric scooter in. Not all carparks are operated by the landowner.*

Nor should the legal ones be used on the pavements or on cycle facilities. They are motorised vehicles, and as per the rules of any hire scheme, should be used only on the roads.

*Given your answer of your first part being "100% correct", it's not.

 

[Alex321]

To be legal for use on private land, you require the landowners permission.
A carpark is private land, but without the landowners permission you can't use one to ride an electric scooter in. Not all carparks are operated by the landowner.*

Nor should the legal ones be used on the pavements or on cycle facilities. They are motorised vehicles, and as per the rules of any hire scheme, should be used only on the roads.

*Given your answer of your first part being "100% correct", it's not.

Can you tell me which art of what I said was not 100% correct then?

It is legal to use them on private land. Obviously if you are not the landowner, then you have to have permission from the landowner - as you do for anything else you want to do on their land in general.

 

[classic33]

Can you tell me which art of what I said was not 100% correct then?

It is legal to use them on private land. Obviously if you are not the landowner, then you have to have permission from the landowner - as you do for anything else you want to do on their land in general.

Re-read the part you claimed was 100% correct, but you've now just agreed was incomplete.

 

[Alex321]

Re-read the part you claimed was 100% correct, but you've now just agreed was incomplete.

It is 100% correct that they are legal to use on private land.

What agreements you may or may not have with the landowner is nothing to do with the legality of using them.

 

[Seevio]

iirc many, if not all road rules apply to private land that is open to the public. This will rule out private e-scooter use in a car park.

 

[icowden]

Re-read the part you claimed was 100% correct, but you've now just agreed was incomplete.

You missed the point. The point is that it is legal to buy an e-scooter. There is no restriction on purchase. The detail about where you can use them is irrelevant to the people selling them.

 

[Alex321]

iirc many, if not all road rules apply to private land that is open to the public. This will rule out private e-scooter use in a car park.

Not all, by any means. Some do - in those, the RoadTraffic Act specifies "road or other public place", but for others it merely specifies "road".

The construction and use regulations only apply to usage on the road.

 

[classic33]

From the Metropolitan Police site
E-scooters are classed as motor vehicles under the Road Traffic Act 1988. Which means the rules that apply to motor vehicles, also apply to e-scooters including the need to have a licence, insurance and tax.

"It's not currently possible to get insurance for privately owned e-scooters, which means it's illegal to use them on the road or in public spaces. If you're using a private e-scooter you risk the vehicle being seized under S.165 Road Traffic Act 1988 for no insurance.

If you cause serious harm to another person whilst riding an e-scooter the incident will be investigated in the same way it would if you were riding a motorcycle or driving a car."

https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/rs/road-safety/advice-escooters/

 

[Alex321]

From the Metropolitan Police site
E-scooters are classed as motor vehicles under the Road Traffic Act 1988. Which means the rules that apply to motor vehicles, also apply to e-scooters including the need to have a licence, insurance and tax.

"It's not currently possible to get insurance for privately owned e-scooters, which means it's illegal to use them on the road or in public spaces. If you're using a private e-scooter you risk the vehicle being seized under S.165 Road Traffic Act 1988 for no insurance.

If you cause serious harm to another person whilst riding an e-scooter the incident will be investigated in the same way it would if you were riding a motorcycle or driving a car."

https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/rs/road-safety/advice-escooters/

All the insurance requirements in S165 only apply to use on a road, not "road or other public place".
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/165

 

[classic33]

All the insurance requirements in S165 only apply to use on a road, not "road or other public place".
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/165

And a road, is a public space or not?
You decide.

I for one hope they do become legal, because the list of requirements required for legal use currently being drawn up, make the trial scheme rules tame in comparison. Testing every year, VED, driving license, test to obtain the correct category on the license. Insurance, helmet to motorcycle standards, lights...

There'll be fewer on the roads, and pavements.