Electric cars

[User482]

The electric cars available now are fairly efficient in comparison to their petrol equivalents, but that's because they are designed to be, to appeal to the eco crowd but also because batteries aren't very good.
Looking into my crystal ball, when electric cars become mainstream, batteries improve or are easily charged, those constraints won't apply - you will simply end up with the electric equivalent of gas guzzlers.

I've done some calculations, and in terms of carbon emissions, electric cars like the Nissan Leaf aren't much different to efficient diesels like the Golf Bluemotion of Focus Econetic. That said, zero tailpipe emissions is a worthwhile goal in terms of improving local air quality.

 

[Bad Company]

It's a shame that nobody seems to be able to produce an elctric car with a range of more than 100 miles or so. This would not be so bad if the recharge time were not so long.

A lot of indoor car parks have recharging bays for electric cars.

 

[Night Train]

It's a shame that nobody seems to be able to produce an electric car with a range of more than 100 miles or so.

'They' have.

 

[Red Light]

We have a Prius (mark 2) at work. According the dashboard computer, battery recharging is more often from slowing down and braking than from the petrol engine.

Your point about the Atkinson cycle engine is true, albeit a minor one: the Prius is at its least efficient when it's on "petrol only" mode, typically this is on motorways. One might expect fuel economy of 50-55mpg in this situation. By contrast, urban use, where full use is made of regenerative braking and the electric motor, one might expect fuel economy of 60 mpg or more.

I drive a Pious and the battery recharging definitely comes mainly from the engine and slightly from the braking. In town mpg is worse than motorway mpg.

 

[Red Light]

It's a shame that nobody seems to be able to produce an elctric car with a range of more than 100 miles or so.

Have a look at the Tesla

 

[byegad]

The best solution, at the moment, is probably a plug in hybrid. The electric side can be recharged from the mains and the engine only cuts in at 30% charge left or if you exceed 100kph (62mph). Around town you're driving an electric car and on the motorway you have a petrol engine to give you range and speed. Toyota have two models in production or due next year with a third on the way apparently. Cost is high as you need two engines and the batteries!

Sadly burning petrol or diesel is convenient and until recently was the only answer. But go back to the early days of motoring and performance was poor with electric and steam powered cars giving internal combustion a run for its money. The convenience of internal combustion won out.

 

[User482]

I drive a Pious and the battery recharging definitely comes mainly from the engine and slightly from the braking. In town mpg is worse than motorway mpg.

Your experience is the opposite of mine, then.

 

[Night Train]

The best solution, at the moment, is probably a plug in hybrid. The electric side can be recharged from the mains and the engine only cuts in at 30% charge left or if you exceed 100kph (62mph). Around town you're driving an electric car and on the motorway you have a petrol engine to give you range and speed. Toyota have two models in production or due next year with a third on the way apparently. Cost is high as you need two engines and the batteries!

Sadly burning petrol or diesel is convenient and until recently was the only answer. But go back to the early days of motoring and performance was poor with electric and steam powered cars giving internal combustion a run for its money. The convenience of internal combustion won out.

The best solution would be to have two cars, one electric and one diesel. Idealy you would hire the diesel car when you need it.

The down side of hybrids is that the electric part of the car has to cart around the dead weight of diesel engine and fuel/exhaust system, etc when it is not being used and the diesel engine needs to cart around the weight of the motor, batteries and charging and control systems for the electric.

Simplistically, to make a Prius a good car, just remove one or the other of the drive trains that you choose.

 

[byegad]

OK if you can afford two cars, but for most people the plug in hybrid gives nearly the best of both worlds.

A better solution would be to get a lot of drivers onto a bike. But the look of horror I get when I'm asked; 'How far have you come? suggests this one will only be an option when motoring gets a lot more expensive. As it will.

 

[Night Train]

My plan is to put the diesel car aside for only the long distance or heavy towing jobs and to build an electric car that will carry two Bromptons.

I am able to have two cars but where that isn't possible then nothing wrong with riding a bike and owning an electric car, then hiring the diesel car as needed. Cheaper then owning too, if not needed often.

 

[Bad Company]

Have a look at the Tesla

I wonder if it really is good for 245 miles? Great progress if it really can.

As I understand it electric car manufacturers have been claiming improved ranges but this reduces considerably if you use the radio \ heater etc. Heat is a natural waste product from a conventional engine but would use a lot of electric power.

Has anybody here any experience of these?

 

[Red Light]

I wonder if it really is good for 245 miles? Great progress if it really can.

As I understand it electric car manufacturers have been claiming improved ranges but this reduces considerably if you use the radio \ heater etc. Heat is a natural waste product from a conventional engine but would use a lot of electric power.

Has anybody here any experience of these?

Reports are the Tesla typically does over 200 miles on one charge.

 

[Red Light]

The best solution would be to have two cars, one electric and one diesel. Idealy you would hire the diesel car when you need it.

The down side of hybrids is that the electric part of the car has to cart around the dead weight of diesel engine and fuel/exhaust system, etc when it is not being used and the diesel engine needs to cart around the weight of the motor, batteries and charging and control systems for the electric.

Simplistically, to make a Prius a good car, just remove one or the other of the drive trains that you choose.

That's not how it works in practice. A lot of the time both motors are used. The electric motors also work as the starter motor (saving the weight of a separate one that a petrol engine would need on its own) and acts as a generator to charge the batteries.

 

[Red Light]

Your experience is the opposite of mine, then.

Maybe because I've had mine some time and driven it a fair few miles over that time so have a lot of experience of driving it across a wide range of situations rather than yours being one they've got at work?

 

[Night Train]

That's not how it works in practice. A lot of the time both motors are used. The electric motors also work as the starter motor (saving the weight of a separate one that a petrol engine would need on its own) and acts as a generator to charge the batteries.

It was a simplistic suggestion, as I am aware of how the Prius works but the weight of a starter motor and an alternator is almost negligable compared to the weight of a traction motor, traction battery pack, controller and charging circuit.
I, personally, don't think it is a good solution other then to 'green up' the motor industry without letting go of the oil addiction.

My big diesel estate gives better performance and economy then the Prius without the electric motor, etc.
Friends who have pure electric cars have better economy and perfermance then the Prius running only on its motor.
I am chosing to go with electric only for the car I am building as I don't want to carry an engine with me to the shops and for visiting friends within a 70 mile radius.

The industry will catch up and any requirement for fossil fuel will gradually diminish.