Electric scooters.

[classic33]

Cleary West Yorkshire Police are taking their mis-use seriously,

The above from freedom of information requests.
https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/search/content?search_term=escooters&op=Search

 

[icowden]

In summary he had someone driving/riding an illegal vehicle on the pavement.
Now replace e-scooter with motor car.

No, because that would be patently absurd. An e-scooter is not in any way comparable with a motor car.

 

[icowden]

Cleary West Yorkshire Police are taking their mis-use seriously, The above from freedom of information requests.
https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/search/content?search_term=escooters&op=Search

Yes, and what a colossal amount of tax payers money they have wasted.

 

[classic33]

Yes, and what a colossal amount of tax payers money they have wasted.

Money wasted investigating an assault, or damage to another vehicle in an RTI/RTC.
Where one of the vehicles involved has been in use illegally.

Again, replace e-scooter with motor vehicle.

As regards the small piece you posted earlier, how about the full piece and not just the google preview?

 

[icowden]

Money wasted investigating an assault, or damage to another vehicle in an RTI/RTC.
Where one of the vehicles involved has been in use illegally.

I must have missed where that is specified in your post. I can see 20 crimes listed over different parts of 4 years. DO you think that is representative of the volume of e-scooters being used since 2018, or just a very small minority that were arrested for particularly egregious use of an e-scooter?

Again, replace e-scooter with motor vehicle.

Again - learn to spot the difference between a 2 tonne piece of machinery capable of 70mph and an e-scooter.

 

[classic33]

I must have missed where that is specified in your post. I can see 20 crimes listed over different parts of 4 years. DO you think that is representative of the volume of e-scooters being used since 2018, or just a very small minority that were arrested for particularly egregious use of an e-scooter?


Again - learn to spot the difference between a 2 tonne piece of machinery capable of 70mph and an e-scooter.

Err, 2020 to 2022 in the pieces given.
Are any motorvehicle collisions representative of all vehicle collisions, number wise?

Would a car be able to swing in at the point shown, doing 70mph.
The vehicle type in question remains illegal. A car, unless it fails to meet the standards set out for use on the road, remains legal. Had it hit anyone/thing then a claim could have been made against the insurers, or via the MIB(Whose schemes don't cover e-scooters.) Nor do the underwriters in the trials, if the electric scooter is being used illegally. In the case given, on the pavement. Electric scooters are road vehicles under all of the trial schemes.

 

[icowden]

. Electric scooters are road vehicles under all of the trial schemes.

But like a bicycle the main risk of injury is to the user. So they are more of an electric bicycle with tiny wheels than they are a car. They are maxed at 12.5mph (was 15mph). Part of the reason for legislation is to be able to deal with people who deregulate and try to ride an escooter at 30mph (which you cannot do on a pavement).

So lets stop comparing escooters with cars and compare them with bikes and ebikes. The legislation is currently wrong headed.

 

[classic33]

But like a bicycle the main risk of injury is to the user. So they are more of an electric bicycle with tiny wheels than they are a car. They are maxed at 12.5mph (was 15mph). Part of the reason for legislation is to be able to deal with people who deregulate and try to ride an escooter at 30mph (which you cannot do on a pavement).

So lets stop comparing escooters with cars and compare them with bikes and ebikes. The legislation is currently wrong headed.

You were the one making the comparison with cars. The law however still classifies them as road going motor vehicles.
They've been through the courts, more than once, with similar worded verdicts returned. However all required the user to tax, MOT, insure the vehicle and be insured to use them on the roads. Similar to the rules now in place, but the trial schemes introduced the age limit requirement.

 

[captain nemo1701]

In summary you were startled by someone on an e-scooter who passed you safely, albeit a bit quickly, but without any issue other than you being startled?

I was passed UNsafely by a person on an illegal escooter who was riding on the pavement. His action was not unlike cyclists who decide to go on the inside of turning trucks and we all know how that ends. If anything, he should have gone behind me. Of course, he shouldn't have been out in public on an escooter to begin with. This is commonly known as a near miss (definition, try clicking on it).

I hope this clarifies things for you.

PS: Had a 70 year old friend of mine knocked over recently by someone riding an escooter on the pavement.

 

[icowden]

They've been through the courts, more than once, with similar worded verdicts returned. However all required the user to tax, MOT, insure the vehicle and be insured to use them on the roads. Similar to the rules now in place, but the trial schemes introduced the age limit requirement.

Yes, because that is the current law. It doesn't follow that the current law is sensible. Thousands of people are not stopped, charged, arrested or prosecuted because the current law is not fit for purpose. At the moment the law is only used where the offence is particularly egregious (i.e. as part of another crime, or a serious injury is sustained, or antisocial behaviour etc).

Whether the law is sensible and should be applied will be part of the challenge in this case.

 

[icowden]

I was passed UNsafely by a person on an illegal escooter who was riding on the pavement.

What was unsafe about it, given that you were completely uninjured? We know that scooters are technically illegal, however a law that is mostly unenforced is pretty useless.

 

[classic33]

What was unsafe about it, given that you were completely uninjured? We know that scooters are technically illegal, however a law that is mostly unenforced is pretty useless.

We know that electric scooters are illegal, at this time, outside of the trials. Personal electric scooters remain illegal where trials are taking place.
The courts have already ruled on this, and the law is also very clear on this point. Which is why private electric scooters were excluded from the trials.

 

[captain nemo1701]

We know that electric scooters are illegal, at this time, outside of the trials. Personal electric scooters remain illegal where trials are taking place.
The courts have already ruled on this, and the law is also very clear on this point. Which is why private electric scooters were excluded from the trials.

How about;

1. He was illegally on the pavement.
2. He was out on a prohibited form of transport which should not be ridden on (1) above.
3. I was not injured, but see the definition of 'Near Miss'.
4. His technique was poor. He should have been on the road. Out cycling, would you go to the right of a car turning right?. I suspect not.

I'm sure you would be taking the opposite view if you experienced this near miss.

I had another one here:

Bearing in mind that this is a pedestrian island for bus passengers, and one of the (useless) Voi hire rules is 'don't ride them on pavements' which is 100% ignored, a woman on a hire escooter almost ran into me - yellow line was her route. As I stepped out of the shelter to look down for my bus a bloke shouted 'Look out mate!' at me. You cannot hear them coming. So another fool who shouldn't have been there presenting a risk to pedestrians.

In Bristol, they infest the pavements, are ridden the wrong way in mono-directional cycle lanes, the wrong way along one-way streets, often see two kids on them 'hiring' ????....yeah...right. Kids have credit cards?. Plus at the end of the journey, effectively fly-tipped in the street.

I'm sure if you lived here with these blasted things, you might take a different view of them all over the pavements.

 

[icowden]

In Bristol, they infest the pavements, are ridden the wrong way in mono-directional cycle lanes, the wrong way along one-way streets, often see two kids on them 'hiring' ????....yeah...right. Kids have credit cards?. Plus at the end of the journey, effectively fly-tipped in the street.

I'm sure if you lived here with these blasted things, you might take a different view of them all over the pavements.

I have to say that these sound like *exactly* the same arguments you hear regarding yoofs on bicycles. Why not just say that you don't like and don't approve of e-scooters?

It's not going to make a difference as they are here to stay, but legislation will be passed which limits speed and takes away the need for insurance, helmet etc because just like bikes, it's unenforceable.

 

[classic33]

I have to say that these sound like *exactly* the same arguments you hear regarding yoofs on bicycles. Why not just say that you don't like and don't approve of e-scooters?

It's not going to make a difference as they are here to stay, but legislation will be passed which limits speed and takes away the need for insurance, helmet etc because just like bikes, it's unenforceable.

The dropping of the insurance requirement won't happen, should they be made legal following the trials. It's part of the reason for having trials in the first place. See what is required, two of those being the license requirement and the insurance. The owners of the scooters used in the trials are already known, and on record. Ownership of the private ones will have to be established, beyond doubt, so will require registration(just the same as those used in the trials). At which point you'll be charged VED, which if current plans for electric vehicles to be liable for it from 2025 onwards will also include electric scooters.

Legislation already exists as regards maximum speed, so nothing new required.

The minute these take effect, you'll see a drop in the number of users.

And just like some car drivers, who seem to think that the laws that apply to everyone else on the roads but them, I don't like electric scooter users either. For the same reason, "the law doesn't apply to them/I can do what I want". Everyone else can get out of my way.