Energy bill increases

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PaulSB

Legendary Member
As a former BG employee (see earlier post) Privatisation changed the whole ethos of this company.
Before privatisation the company had many time served engineers in positions of high authority. Sir Dennis Rooke (he of the 'Fat cat' witch hunt)
rose from youth apprentice to chairman of BG. Priorities in those days, driven by engineering excellence were safety and continuinty of supply.
After Privatisation came the 'rise' of the Accountant and the need to provide returns for shareholders and imo the demise of what was the Worlds leading authority on large scale gas distribution networks. You will find now that the top echelon of the business and many of the other privatised utilities are headed by 'professional businessmen' who have no experience of the 'grass roots' of the company they are heading.
I've heard similar from another ex BG employee. I was asked to complete a satisfaction survey this morning. I've gone to some trouble to explain why their Customer Service is appalling. Basically it's taken three months to understand how my energy account runs. If I'd had the correct information I wouldn't be £287.76 behind in my payments which I'm deeply unhappy about. I can afford it but as a pensioner it's wrecked my budgeting for a couple of months and as I said earlier could be disastrous for millions of people. If the staff were adequately trained and provided concise clear information BG would save ££££, I would save time and BG would receive praise instead of derision.

I know it's not true for everyone but my experience of the engineers is superb.
 

ColinJ

Puzzle game procrastinator!
Also the fact that the CO2 monitor was in the cupboard
That would be a CO monitor.

I make sure that I have them in the house now after very nearly dying from CO poisoning from a faulty gas fire installation about 20 years ago. (Fortunately when I blacked out I fell down below the CO build-up and eventually woke up and crawled to safety!)

I had a gas safety check here yesterday and the engineer noticed that my 2 monitors have just reached the end of their 7 year working life so I will be buying new ones shortly.

My £140 Warm Home discount has come through to help with this winter fuel bill. I'm worried about the coming year though.
 
D

Deleted member 26715

Guest
why did it get replaced then by the second company id ask myself.
Because it was old & inefficient it was about 15 years old & was going to be replaced this year anyway. But it was the method in which it was done & the fact that no investigation was done into the cause, he looked on his computer & said not all parts are available for this boiler & condemned it without knowing what part(s) would need to be replaced, if any.

The 2nd engineer on taking out the boiler found that the seal between the flue & the boiler had perished which could & I repeat could have been the cause.

Sorry yes. Monoxide, not Dioxide, I too once had a lucky escape, as a BT Engineer we were always told never to have the stove on in the back of the van with the doors closed but we knew better, 3 of us nearly didn't get back out of the back of the van that day.
 

ColinJ

Puzzle game procrastinator!
Sorry yes. Monoxide, not Dioxide, I too once had a lucky escape, as a BT Engineer we were always told never to have the stove on in the back of the van with the doors closed but we knew better, 3 of us nearly didn't get back out of the back of the van that day.
Yikes!

I saw a useful tip yesterday when reading about the monitors. If travelling to accommodation in a country which may not have good gas safety standards, take a CO monitor with you.
 

presta

Guru
What I would emphasise though is I find their engineers excellent. Some years ago BG supplied and installed our Worcester Bosch combi boiler and we have used the annual service and maintenance package ever since. The engineers are professional, on time, communicate well and generally a credit to themselves. I've never forgotten the one who walked in and said "you've got a leak" - within an hour an old disused but leaking lead supply was suspected and a team was there inside two hours to dig up the yard, cap it and the next day the back fill team arrived.
When we converted to natural gas in the 1970s, we had our old Ascot "geyser" replaced with a new multipoint water heater. For the uninitiated, they heat water on demand when you run the tap, a bit like today's combi boilers, but without the heating. The water passes through a venturi that creates a pressure drop when you turn the tap on, then the pressure difference is sensed by a diaphragm, and the displacement moves a pushrod which opens the gas valve.

Why am I rambling on about all this? Well, the pushrod accumulates limescale so that it jams in the gland where it passes through the diaphragm housing. This means that when you turn the tap off, the return spring isn't strong enough to return it, and the gas keeps burning, so you now have a sealed vessel full of water being heated by a 22kW burner.

Now one of two things happens: either you notice that the burner hasn't stopped, and recognise the knocking in the pipes that signals the water's boiling and the heat exchanger's about to blow, or else it will explode. Fortunately we were able to do the former, so that was the cue to quickly turn the tap back on, and relieve the pressure (then stand well back as a blast of steam and solder pellets erupt from the tap). Then you can turn off the gas at the stopcock, followed by the water tap.

Why am I still rambling on about this? Well, when British Gas came out, they behaved as if they'd never seen anything like it before, scraped the limescale off the pushrod, put it all back together, and went away. In due course the limescale accumulated again, and there was another hasty scramble to stop the heater exploding, and again BG cleaned the pushrod and went away. This happened again and again and again over the years, but each time BG behaved as if they'd never seen it before, so my father wrote them a long letter, and their solution was to fit another more modern water heater (at our expense).

That one seemed OK for a while, but then the same thing started happening again, and this time the stakes were higher for two reasons. Firstly, my father had died in the meantime, which meant that if I turned the water tap off upstairs in the bathroom, there was nobody downstairs in the kitchen to spot that the gas burner was still running, so now the only warning was the knocking noise from the pipes. Secondly, the water main had been replaced, and in keeping with current regulations, a non-return valve had been fitted to the rising main. Previously, the heat exchanger could overheat, but the pressure would never exceed mains pressure because the water was able to expand back into the main. This was critical, because now the NR valve prevented any expansion, so that when the burner kept running there was nothing to limit the pressure. This all meant that I had less than a second to recognise the knocking in the pipes, and turn the tap back on to relieve the pressure (not forgetting to stand clear of the steam blast of course).

Sure enough, one day my luck ran out and the heater exploded, but fortunately, being in the bathroom at the time meant I didn't get scalded to death in the kitchen. BG were round quite quickly when I told them it had exploded, but they just talked to me like a naughty 5 year old because I didn't have one of their service contracts, then put it all back together and went away until the next time.

And there were quite a few next times, so I made sure I had a service contract, then at least the heat exchangers got replaced at their expense. I really don't remember how many, but eventually they got fed up of paying for new heat exchangers at £200-300 apiece, and cancelled my service contract. This was about the time I decided I'd had enough and wrote to them threatening legal action, and just for good measure I included a copy of the letter my father had sent them on the same subject 16 years earlier. Within 24 hours they came round to fit a modification that had been developed donkey's years previously to fix the problem. I think the fix was a Teflon-coated pushrod that stopped the limescale sticking to it, but I had another 25 years trouble-free service out of it after that was done.

Aren't British gas wonderful.
(BTW, independent plumbers wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.)
 
When we converted to natural gas in the 1970s, we had our old Ascot "geyser" replaced with a new multipoint water heater. For the uninitiated, they heat water on demand when you run the tap, a bit like today's combi boilers, but without the heating. The water passes through a venturi that creates a pressure drop when you turn the tap on, then the pressure difference is sensed by a diaphragm, and the displacement moves a pushrod which opens the gas valve.

Why am I rambling on about all this? Well, the pushrod accumulates limescale so that it jams in the gland where it passes through the diaphragm housing. This means that when you turn the tap off, the return spring isn't strong enough to return it, and the gas keeps burning, so you now have a sealed vessel full of water being heated by a 22kW burner.

Now one of two things happens: either you notice that the burner hasn't stopped, and recognise the knocking in the pipes that signals the water's boiling and the heat exchanger's about to blow, or else it will explode. Fortunately we were able to do the former, so that was the cue to quickly turn the tap back on, and relieve the pressure (then stand well back as a blast of steam and solder pellets erupt from the tap). Then you can turn off the gas at the stopcock, followed by the water tap.

Why am I still rambling on about this? Well, when British Gas came out, they behaved as if they'd never seen anything like it before, scraped the limescale off the pushrod, put it all back together, and went away. In due course the limescale accumulated again, and there was another hasty scramble to stop the heater exploding, and again BG cleaned the pushrod and went away. This happened again and again and again over the years, but each time BG behaved as if they'd never seen it before, so my father wrote them a long letter, and their solution was to fit another more modern water heater (at our expense).

That one seemed OK for a while, but then the same thing started happening again, and this time the stakes were higher for two reasons. Firstly, my father had died in the meantime, which meant that if I turned the water tap off upstairs in the bathroom, there was nobody downstairs in the kitchen to spot that the gas burner was still running, so now the only warning was the knocking noise from the pipes. Secondly, the water main had been replaced, and in keeping with current regulations, a non-return valve had been fitted to the rising main. Previously, the heat exchanger could overheat, but the pressure would never exceed mains pressure because the water was able to expand back into the main. This was critical, because now the NR valve prevented any expansion, so that when the burner kept running there was nothing to limit the pressure. This all meant that I had less than a second to recognise the knocking in the pipes, and turn the tap back on to relieve the pressure (not forgetting to stand clear of the steam blast of course).

Sure enough, one day my luck ran out and the heater exploded, but fortunately, being in the bathroom at the time meant I didn't get scalded to death in the kitchen. BG were round quite quickly when I told them it had exploded, but they just talked to me like a naughty 5 year old because I didn't have one of their service contracts, then put it all back together and went away until the next time.

And there were quite a few next times, so I made sure I had a service contract, then at least the heat exchangers got replaced at their expense. I really don't remember how many, but eventually they got fed up of paying for new heat exchangers at £200-300 apiece, and cancelled my service contract. This was about the time I decided I'd had enough and wrote to them threatening legal action, and just for good measure I included a copy of the letter my father had sent them on the same subject 16 years earlier. Within 24 hours they came round to fit a modification that had been developed donkey's years previously to fix the problem. I think the fix was a Teflon-coated pushrod that stopped the limescale sticking to it, but I had another 25 years trouble-free service out of it after that was done.

Aren't British gas wonderful.
(BTW, independent plumbers wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.)

If they were 'surprised' at the scale build up, it shows that they haven't been trained properly, as greasing that pin and checking the O rings is part of the annual service that they are supposed to carry out on every such appliance.
 

gbb

Legendary Member
Location
Peterborough
Because it was old & inefficient it was about 15 years old & was going to be replaced this year anyway. But it was the method in which it was done & the fact that no investigation was done into the cause, he looked on his computer & said not all parts are available for this boiler & condemned it without knowing what part(s) would need to be replaced, if any.

The 2nd engineer on taking out the boiler found that the seal between the flue & the boiler had perished which could & I repeat could have been the cause.
That may be a failing if the structure which they work within, if ALL the spares required for a full repair arent available...period (and that is something that is increasingly common as boilers age), theres not much anyone can do (apart from scouring the net for refurbished or secondhand parts...or rarely NOS) Same applies for any company, but some are more flexible, as in your second engineers visit. Trouble is, i suspect in BGs case, they cant or dont react fast enough, their followup is poor, id agree 100%
BG of course wouldnt fit unwarranted, unknown parts (i know you know that, im ust musing) Another company might get it going, be less rigid...its swings and roundabouts, like everything in life.
My son faces it day after day condemning boilers for safety reasons and unavailability of parts.
My boiler is over 25 years old. One small failure just might condemn it. One large failure last year nearly did, an insulation panel within the burner broke in half...no spares, havnt been for years. Brought a larger generic sheet of the right material, cut to size, repair made. BG would never have done that, i suspect many independants wouldnt either, not because its not safe...but because theres no money in it for them (it cost me less than £20 iirc) . Thats the unfortunate reality we all have to contend with.
Im fully expecting a circa £3k system rebuild in the next couple years, its expected, semi planned and budgeted for thankfully...

I talked swings and roundabouts...BG for instance fit only generally the most reliable boilers. The logic is they have to attend less breakdowns, less cost to them, the plus is a normally more reliable system for the customer. Private companies i suspect often sell the cheapest boilers, either because it makes them more profit or the customer limits the spend...result, a poorer quality, less reliable system.
 
As a former BG employee (see earlier post) Privatisation changed the whole ethos of this company.
Before privatisation the company had many time served engineers in positions of high authority. Sir Dennis Rooke (he of the 'Fat cat' witch hunt)
rose from youth apprentice to chairman of BG. Priorities in those days, driven by engineering excellence were safety and continuinty of supply.
After Privatisation came the 'rise' of the Accountant and the need to provide returns for shareholders and imo the demise of what was the Worlds leading authority on large scale gas distribution networks. You will find now that the top echelon of the business and many of the other privatised utilities are headed by 'professional businessmen' who have no experience of the 'grass roots' of the company they are heading.

100% agree. They tried to change the Engineers to salesmen, even sending them on sales courses that advised them that their trusted reputation left them in a great position to convince people that a new appliance was more economical than a repair, even for things that could be done with bits in the van for a minimal cost. They offered rewards for every new appliance they could sell.

At one point, they even sold central heating systems that were only designed to provide background heat, but kept that aspect quiet, and offered them as a bargain price option as they had smaller radiators and boiler.

Since then, the training most tradesmen (not just BG or gas engineers) take has been dumbed down to a ridiculous degree to the former CGLI apprenticeships. I've known people working on gas appliances that were little more than delivery drivers that had been on a short course.

Few are four year time served.
 

gbb

Legendary Member
Location
Peterborough
Im no BG lover btw :laugh:, i do hear the problems my son faces somethimes, problems from within the company, problems some unreasonable or unrealistic customers,systems that when they go wrong are expensive...and a company some people still think of as they used to 30 years ago. BG isnt your friend or saviour, they provide a service on their terms, same as most other companies do. You pays your money...
 
That may be a failing if the structure which they work within, if ALL the spares required for a full repair arent available...period (and that is something that is increasingly common as boilers age), theres not much anyone can do (apart from scouring the net for refurbished or secondhand parts...or rarely NOS) Same applies for any company, but some are more flexible, as in your second engineers visit. Trouble is, i suspect in BGs case, they cant or dont react fast enough, their followup is poor, id agree 100%
BG of course wouldnt fit unwarranted, unknown parts (i know you know that, im ust musing) Another company might get it going, be less rigid...its swings and roundabouts, like everything in life.
My son faces it day after day condemning boilers for safety reasons and unavailability of parts.
My boiler is over 25 years old. One small failure just might condemn it. One large failure last year nearly did, an insulation panel within the burner broke in half...no spares, havnt been for years. Brought a larger generic sheet of the right material, cut to size, repair made. BG would never have done that, i suspect many independants wouldnt either, not because its not safe...but because theres no money in it for them (it cost me less than £20 iirc) . Thats the unfortunate reality we all have to contend with.
Im fully expecting a circa £3k system rebuild in the next couple years, its expected, semi planned and budgeted for thankfully...

I talked swings and roundabouts...BG for instance fit only generally the most reliable boilers. The logic is they have to attend less breakdowns, less cost to them, the plus is a normally more reliable system for the customer. Private companies i suspect often sell the cheapest boilers, either because it makes them more profit or the customer limits the spend...result, a poorer quality, less reliable system.

A friend has a few properties he rents out, and he installs a cheap boiler in them. He costed it all out, and calculated that replacing a cheap boiler for another one if it packed up, was more cost effective than trying to source and fit spare parts, or having a maintenance contract. He argues that's better for his tenants too as he can resolve things very quickly.

Ironically, he's not had to replace any as yet, despite them being in for years.
 

ColinJ

Puzzle game procrastinator!
When we converted to natural gas in the 1970s, we had our old Ascot "geyser" replaced with a new multipoint water heater. For the uninitiated, they heat water on demand when you run the tap, a bit like today's combi boilers, but without the heating. The water passes through a venturi that creates a pressure drop when you turn the tap on, then the pressure difference is sensed by a diaphragm, and the displacement moves a pushrod which opens the gas valve.

Why am I rambling on about all this? Well, the pushrod accumulates limescale so that it jams in the gland where it passes through the diaphragm housing. This means that when you turn the tap off, the return spring isn't strong enough to return it, and the gas keeps burning, so you now have a sealed vessel full of water being heated by a 22kW burner.

Now one of two things happens: either you notice that the burner hasn't stopped, and recognise the knocking in the pipes that signals the water's boiling and the heat exchanger's about to blow, or else it will explode. Fortunately we were able to do the former, so that was the cue to quickly turn the tap back on, and relieve the pressure (then stand well back as a blast of steam and solder pellets erupt from the tap). Then you can turn off the gas at the stopcock, followed by the water tap.

Why am I still rambling on about this? Well, when British Gas came out, they behaved as if they'd never seen anything like it before, scraped the limescale off the pushrod, put it all back together, and went away. In due course the limescale accumulated again, and there was another hasty scramble to stop the heater exploding, and again BG cleaned the pushrod and went away. This happened again and again and again over the years, but each time BG behaved as if they'd never seen it before, so my father wrote them a long letter, and their solution was to fit another more modern water heater (at our expense).

That one seemed OK for a while, but then the same thing started happening again, and this time the stakes were higher for two reasons. Firstly, my father had died in the meantime, which meant that if I turned the water tap off upstairs in the bathroom, there was nobody downstairs in the kitchen to spot that the gas burner was still running, so now the only warning was the knocking noise from the pipes. Secondly, the water main had been replaced, and in keeping with current regulations, a non-return valve had been fitted to the rising main. Previously, the heat exchanger could overheat, but the pressure would never exceed mains pressure because the water was able to expand back into the main. This was critical, because now the NR valve prevented any expansion, so that when the burner kept running there was nothing to limit the pressure. This all meant that I had less than a second to recognise the knocking in the pipes, and turn the tap back on to relieve the pressure (not forgetting to stand clear of the steam blast of course).

Sure enough, one day my luck ran out and the heater exploded, but fortunately, being in the bathroom at the time meant I didn't get scalded to death in the kitchen. BG were round quite quickly when I told them it had exploded, but they just talked to me like a naughty 5 year old because I didn't have one of their service contracts, then put it all back together and went away until the next time.

And there were quite a few next times, so I made sure I had a service contract, then at least the heat exchangers got replaced at their expense. I really don't remember how many, but eventually they got fed up of paying for new heat exchangers at £200-300 apiece, and cancelled my service contract. This was about the time I decided I'd had enough and wrote to them threatening legal action, and just for good measure I included a copy of the letter my father had sent them on the same subject 16 years earlier. Within 24 hours they came round to fit a modification that had been developed donkey's years previously to fix the problem. I think the fix was a Teflon-coated pushrod that stopped the limescale sticking to it, but I had another 25 years trouble-free service out of it after that was done.

Aren't British gas wonderful.
(BTW, independent plumbers wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.)
Oh wow - that would explain how this happened! :eek:

... I decided to treat myself to a nice long soak in the bath. Very relaxing it was too, so much so that I dozed off for about 15 minutes. Eventually, I woke up and decided to wash my hair and leaned forward with a plastic jug in my hands to fill with fresh hot water from the tap...

Some sort of Time Dilation Effect then took place! In the course of about 150 milliseconds I went from sitting relaxed in the bath to running downstairs naked screaming F**K, F**K, F**K!!!

When I'd turned the hot water tap on, there was a deafening 'water hammer', the like of which I'd never heard before. It sounded like a team of miners were attempting to knock my bathroom wall down with pickaxes. This was closely followed by a strange whooshing noise, then vast amounts of scalding steam erupted from the tap, blasting boiling rust-coloured water into the jug and knocking it from my hands. :biggrin:

I got out of there so quickly that I was halfway down the stairs before I could even think. Then I paused, and decided to go back and turn the tap off.

It already was like a bloody sauna in there and my heart was beating like a drum. I hadn't a clue what had just happened. I had to wrap a towel round the tap to turn it off because it was too hot to touch. Eventually I shut off the steam and water and stood there dripping and shaking, and then I saw what the problem was... The water heater gas jets were still burning away merrily even though the water wasn't running! The gas valve had obviously stuck open so the water in the water heater had been heated to boiling point while I was asleep in the bath.

I turned the gas supply off and was standing next to the water heater when I heard another strange noise, this time a kind of fizzing. The next moment, water started spraying out of the joint where the cold water inlet was attached to the heater. Cue another naked sprint down the stairs yelling expletives... If anybody had been passing my back yard at the time they'd have seen a big naked man running around my kitchen searching for the stop cock***. Fortunately, there was no-one about.

All in all, I had a very narrow escape. I could have got some terrible burns from all that steam and boiling water but it missed me by inches. There was also an obvious risk of the boiler exploding if I'd not woken up when I did. I even managed to turn the water supply off before any major water damage was done, just a few stains on the wall and a pile of soggy towels.

And the moral of today's little story is - Make sure that you have your gas appliances serviced regularly folks!
 

gbb

Legendary Member
Location
Peterborough
100% agree. They tried to change the Engineers to salesmen, even sending them on sales courses that advised them that their trusted reputation left them in a great position to convince people that a new appliance was more economical than a repair, even for things that could be done with bits in the van for a minimal cost. They offered rewards for every new appliance they could sell.

At one point, they even sold central heating systems that were only designed to provide background heat, but kept that aspect quiet, and offered them as a bargain price option as they had smaller radiators and boiler.

Since then, the training most tradesmen (not just BG or gas engineers) take has been dumbed down to a ridiculous degree to the former CGLI apprenticeships. I've known people working on gas appliances that were little more than delivery drivers that had been on a short course.

Few are four year time served.
My son is a trainer and youre right, his training was very intense, long lasting (i cant remember the timescale, it wasnt 3 or 4 years, but it was one year minimum) but hes now training guys and the timescale is literally weeks initially, then they buddy up for a while and are assessed regularly for a period. Theyre not imbeciles when they are released into the working world....but, theres sacrifices in quality of course.
But the same is true everywhere, no-one does apprenticeships like they used to, everythings dumbed down, We've just taken on 2 trainees, one mechanical, one electrical, less time at college, more assessmets of work done by people who dont even see you do the work itself, its not a patch on what trainees had to do 30 years ago. Its reality unfortunately.
 
One other factor that privatisation has influenced today is that previously, the 'profit' was pumped back in to the infrastructure.

Once privatised, that profit was paid out to shareholders, including pensions funds, so many of us are culpable, and they ran the supplies on the existing infrastructure, which is now well past it's point of being fit, and in need of massive investment.

This has been highlighted even further with the push for charging points, which cannot always happen, as the supply simply isn't up to delivering it to the points it is needed, and likewise, it's not always possible to put solar farms on fields, as they are at the smaller end of the network cabling, so it can't cope with the power generated.
 
My son is a trainer and youre right, his training was very intense, long lasting (i cant remember the timescale, it wasnt 3 or 4 years, but it was one year minimum) but hes now training guys and the timescale is literally weeks initially, then they buddy up for a while and are assessed regularly for a period. Theyre not imbeciles when they are released into the working world....but, theres sacrifices in quality of course.
But the same is true everywhere, no-one does apprenticeships like they used to, everythings dumbed down, We've just taken on 2 trainees, one mechanical, one electrical, less time at college, more assessmets of work done by people who dont even see you do the work itself, its not a patch on what trainees had to do 30 years ago. Its reality unfortunately.

My mate was an assessor, and he chucked it as he was losing sleep from what he had seen some of these 'trained' people doing.
 
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