England v USA..

[Smokin Joe]

This was the result England needed. The USA are a decent side, as already stated they ran Brazil close in the Confederations Cup last year, and the worst thing England coud have done was to win comfortably. Expectations would have been raised to ridiculous levels in a sea of hysteria and stuttery opening match performances are not unusual for teams that go on to win the competition. I am (unfortunately) old enough to remember the slagging England got after they drew with Uraguay in '66, we were being written off then.

I can't understand why people are so anti-Hesky, he did the job he was picked to do (keep the opposing defenders busy) and he did it well. No side I've seen so far stand out as being much better than England, I can still see a realistic chance of the semis.

And can we please have an Anti World Cup section for the attention seekers? You don't like football, big deal, but please go and bore one and other with it rather than gatecrashing other people's threads. You'd soon complain if someone said they hoped Wiggins would crash out of the Tour on stage one.

 

[marinyork]

Historically I see all the comparisons Smokin Joe and Mangaman are on about. I just don't see it applicable to England - when qualifying for international tournaments we get incredibly wound up about that and then think that form applies either way to when we get there - it doesn't. At tournaments we get wound up at the group stage and then put in that sort of performance at round 2 and sometimes get through and sometimes don't. Other countries of course go through the same feelings and critisims but seem to do it in a much more mature way in their media and within the team. None of this particularly seems to apply to the France and Germanies of this world where they can indeed play shocking at some times quite good at others and get to world cup finals.

I was out till late watching the game and the atmosphere afterwards was very threatening, I think the average fan thought discounting various recent silly qualification games that was the weakest England performance in about 15 years.

Like others I missed the goal due to technical difficulties!

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Well, both England and the USA will certainly qualify anyway. Slovenia and Algeria are nowhere near their quality. Slovenia were lucky that Algeria had a man sent off and a keeper who made an error similar to Green's. How Algeria beat the African champions and by far the best current side in Africa, Eqypt, I am not quite sure. I am guessing this may, however, be the group of the least quality in the World Cup this year.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Heskey and Wright-Phillips should never be allowed near an England dressing room again

Heskey was one of the few players who played quite well - a great pass for the goal and held things up nicely. Sure, he had a shot straight at the keeper, but I do wonder why people pick him out quite so much for criticism.

Lampard is the one who always gets me. He can't stop scoring for Chelsea but at the World Cup he just seems to turn into a hopeful hoofer. Didn't he have the most shots at the last one but didn't score a single goal? Some players step up, some don't. Heskey always plays better at this level, as does Crouch.

 

[Bill Gates]

OK lets get a reality check.

Fabio Capello picks the team and rightly got a lot of credit for getting England to the World Cup. In the same way he must take the blame for the performance against the USA. He selected and prepared the team.

Football is a team game and those countries who are considered inferior now have the opportunity to spend some weeks together, study the opposition in some detail and develop a strategy to nullify the opposition and create chances to score goals. No one should be under estimated.

If our goalkeeper made a mistake that cost us a goal then it's the Manager and his coaching staff who must share that responsibilty. Confident players don't make those sort of mistakes and the fact that none of the three goalkeepers knew who was going to play is hardly confidence building.

We are told that Heskey brings out the best in Rooney. I thought Rooney had a very poor game and Heskey played a blinder but you can't blame Heskey for not scoring against the USA as he doesn't exactly have a track record for scoring goals.

Like him or loath him Peter Crouch scores lots of goals for England. It is said it's against poor opposition but I don't see the other players on the pitch score lots of goals against those teams. A striker should be picked who is used to putting the ball in the net.

We are also told that the team is prepared to change it around to meet different circumstances. Playing Gerrard up front with Rooney and letting Lampard control the middle of the pitch seems a good option to me, but then I'm not the England manager.

 

[Debian]

Well, both England and the USA will certainly qualify anyway. Slovenia and Algeria are nowhere near their quality. Slovenia were lucky that Algeria had a man sent off and a keeper who made an error similar to Green's. How Algeria beat the African champions and by far the best current side in Africa, Eqypt, I am not quite sure. I am guessing this may, however, be the group of the least quality in the World Cup this year.

Let's get this right....

You're saying that both Algeria and Slovenia were poor. OK, it was a poor game for sure but it's their first game.

People here are saying words to the effect of "get real, this was England's first game, that's why they were poor" but now Algeria and Slovenia were.... just poor.

You can't have it both ways!

 

[marinyork]

It was a first game for Algeria and Slovenia and they were poor but the problem with such bad games with result like that is that will have given Slovenia some confidence so you could have them plotting and scheming how to get a draw with the USA and once you get into the 3pt/4pt/5pt territory anybody could qualify - people often forget this. USA and England are still favourites to qualify even if say one of them got 5pts but it might end up being more entertaining/nervy games than we'd like if indeed it is the worst group.

 

[darkstar]

Let's get this right....

You're saying that both Algeria and Slovenia were poor. OK, it was a poor game for sure but it's their first game.

People here are saying words to the effect of "get real, this was England's first game, that's why they were poor" but now Algeria and Slovenia were.... just poor.

You can't have it both ways!

Lol i don't understand this general consensus that England were poor, i though that both england and the USA played pretty well yesterday, both should outclass the other sides in the group.

 

[mangaman]

So how long have you been watching England?

My first memories were of 1973 when we failed to beat Poland at home and didn't qualify for 1974 - how about you )I'm not sure why you asked the question

Did you see the absolute drivel that was Slovenia/Algeria?

Suddenly people are being a bit positive again on this thread.

Green made a horrendous error - otherwise we were the better team. As for Slovenia and Algeria

I think that was the worst football match I've ever seen.

As posted earlier - Italy drew 1-1 with the US in the group stage in the last world cup and won the thing. Let's have a bit of maturity here.

IMHO our main difference from before is our manager. I'm sure he's looking into things.

As an Italian he knows about growing into tournaments and peaking at the right time.

 

[marinyork]

As posted earlier - Italy drew 1-1 with the US in the group stage in the last world cup and won the thing. Let's have a bit of maturity here.

Yes, but Italy are much more mature about things. The Italians and various other peoples understand this, we don't.

IMHO our main difference from before is our manager. I'm sure he's looking into things.

As an Italian he knows about growing into tournaments and peaking at the right time.

Here, I do agree. I just hope it does rub off and so we at least make it to the quarter finals.

 

[mangaman]

Yes, but Italy are much more mature about things. The Italians and various other peoples understand this, we don't.



Here, I do agree. I just hope it does rub off and so we at least make it to the quarter finals.

This is my hope marin.

I'm not stupid enough to say we're going to definitely win - but we were clearly the best team of the 4 in our group and for the 1st time have a manager who has experience of "growing into" tournaments.

We may get knocked out in the group stage - none of us know, but the knee-jerk England are rubbish type responses are a bit depressing.

 

[Smokin Joe]

We may get knocked out in the group stage - none of us know, but the knee-jerk England are rubbish type responses are a bit depressing.

Well said.

The trouble with us in this country is that we think only in terms of black and white when it comes to the national team. Very few nations go all the way in a tournament without some tricky moments along the way. The worldwide game has matured over the last few decades and there are very few bad teams in the finals. If we get over this attitude that we can send a gun boat up the Nile and give Johnnie Foreigner a bloody nose any time we choose we will see the bigger picture.

There will be no cakewalks, every game will be hard, most will be close and a draw against a very good American team was a decent start.

 

[hackbike 666]

If you want an example of how to hold a lead and win a match...watch Germany.

 

[Over The Hill]

We dont want to come second as we would then face the Germans! It has to be top of the group or it will be the bus home!

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Let's get this right....

You're saying that both Algeria and Slovenia were poor. OK, it was a poor game for sure but it's their first game.

People here are saying words to the effect of "get real, this was England's first game, that's why they were poor" but now Algeria and Slovenia were.... just poor.

You can't have it both ways!

Are you criticising me for not being consistent with other people's views?

I think I made it clear that this groups lacks quality. Neither England and the USA played particularly well, but I can't see either losing to Algeria or Slovenia (both of whom were lucky to qualify). But I don't think either the USA or England will go much further unless they raise their game quite significantly. I had England down as quarter-finalists at best before everything started (see for yourself in the thread about who we think will win); I haven't changed my mind.