Entering the box.

[Lurker]

...Standing directly in front of the queue of traffic inside an ASL reservoir when I’m not turning Right is effectively ‘joining the race’ and I’m there to be overtaken at the first opportunity....

Like the picture of the ASL in use, illustrating HC Rule 178, here

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070332


you mean?

 

[Lurker]

...Standing directly in front of the queue of traffic inside an ASL reservoir when I’m not turning Right is effectively ‘joining the race’ and I’m there to be overtaken at the first opportunity....

Like the picture of the ASL in use, illustrating HC Rule 178, here

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070332


you mean?

 

[tdr1nka]

There are two types of sportsmen. Those with natural talent and those who need a book to tell them how to do it.

The same applies to cycling in traffic. There are those who recognise danger and ride in a position well away from it, and those who ride ‘to the book’ but take so much time deciding if they really are ‘to the book’, they end up being a nuisance.

So you are saying that no matter what the reason, it is wrong for a cyclist to hold up traffic, even if he/she is doing it for their own safety?

You make great assumptions and generalisations, fwiw, my defensive riding style came from years on motorbikes and that was nearly fifteen years before I came to read cyclecraft. The book confirmed that I was doing the best for my own safety. Be seen, make eye contact, signal clearly and pull over when it is safe to do so.

If drivers actually drove in the knowledge of how a cyclist is allowed to use the road none of this need be a problem.
A yoof on a BSO riding up the middle of the road, no hands and talking on a mobile is a problem, yes.
An experienced cyclist taking the road for mere seconds to ensure their own safety is not.

Any driver who bullies a cyclist off the line at an ASL needs re-educating(maybe not by the cyclist in question)and not the cyclist who needs to get out of the way.

We've not even touched on the subject of priority.

 

[tdr1nka]

There are two types of sportsmen. Those with natural talent and those who need a book to tell them how to do it.

The same applies to cycling in traffic. There are those who recognise danger and ride in a position well away from it, and those who ride ‘to the book’ but take so much time deciding if they really are ‘to the book’, they end up being a nuisance.

So you are saying that no matter what the reason, it is wrong for a cyclist to hold up traffic, even if he/she is doing it for their own safety?

You make great assumptions and generalisations, fwiw, my defensive riding style came from years on motorbikes and that was nearly fifteen years before I came to read cyclecraft. The book confirmed that I was doing the best for my own safety. Be seen, make eye contact, signal clearly and pull over when it is safe to do so.

If drivers actually drove in the knowledge of how a cyclist is allowed to use the road none of this need be a problem.
A yoof on a BSO riding up the middle of the road, no hands and talking on a mobile is a problem, yes.
An experienced cyclist taking the road for mere seconds to ensure their own safety is not.

Any driver who bullies a cyclist off the line at an ASL needs re-educating(maybe not by the cyclist in question)and not the cyclist who needs to get out of the way.

We've not even touched on the subject of priority.

 

[jimboalee]

"Don't worry Noddy, I've read Cyclecraft".

"Yes, but the Goblins who stole my car don't give a toss about Cyclecraft and they'll run you off the road if you get in their way".

 

[jimboalee]

"Don't worry Noddy, I've read Cyclecraft".

"Yes, but the Goblins who stole my car don't give a toss about Cyclecraft and they'll run you off the road if you get in their way".

 

[tdr1nka]

A good measured response there to some points of view that don't match your own there Jim.

What's really sad about your position on this is that if more cyclists actually read cyclecraft as a guide, I don't suggest everyone follows it to the letter, then there might be fewer incidents of the kind as you see them.

The overall point being, no matter how a cyclist rides in front of you, as a driver you have a duty of care to them as a vulnerable road user.

 

[tdr1nka]

A good measured response there to some points of view that don't match your own there Jim.

What's really sad about your position on this is that if more cyclists actually read cyclecraft as a guide, I don't suggest everyone follows it to the letter, then there might be fewer incidents of the kind as you see them.

The overall point being, no matter how a cyclist rides in front of you, as a driver you have a duty of care to them as a vulnerable road user.

 

[jimboalee]

I've been out for a ride today.

Into Birmingham shopping centre ( Bull Ring ).

I rode as I usually do, ignoring ASL reservoirs, going forward at TL stoplines and giving Mr Motorist the 'benefit of the doubt' at junctions.

I got back home safe and sound. No toots, no shouts, no worries.

How do I do it?

 

[jimboalee]

I've been out for a ride today.

Into Birmingham shopping centre ( Bull Ring ).

I rode as I usually do, ignoring ASL reservoirs, going forward at TL stoplines and giving Mr Motorist the 'benefit of the doubt' at junctions.

I got back home safe and sound. No toots, no shouts, no worries.

How do I do it?

 

[boydj]

The standard lane width is 3m, or 10 ft.

A bike is 2' and a car is 5' (nominal).

The car leave 1' between it and the centre markers. The bike rides 2' from the kerb minimum.

That leaves 1 foot between the cyclist's elbow and the passing car.

If I reach out my right arm, the passing cars will hit my right hand.

This is pretty normal in the urban environment.

If I was to throw out my right arm suddenly and the passing car hits it, it would be MY responsibilty for any damage because,

1/ Riding without due care and attention, and
2/ Causing an obstruction to traffic.

Try it.

Well I have been riding for over 45 years and can tell you that a car that passes close enough for you to touch is way too close. If you did touch it, then it is the driver who has broken the law. Check the oft-quoted picture in the highway code.

I had an incident a few weeks ago where I was passed by a stream of about six cars. All moved out and passed safely except the last, which did not deviate from his line, passed close enough to touch and got the finger as a result. He saw the gesture, pulled over at the next junction and we exchanged words - politely. He actually apologised after I explained why he should have pulled out to overtake.


I know I get far fewer close overtakes - and very little grief from motorists - since I became more assertive in my road position. Perhaps you should give that a try......

 

[boydj]

The standard lane width is 3m, or 10 ft.

A bike is 2' and a car is 5' (nominal).

The car leave 1' between it and the centre markers. The bike rides 2' from the kerb minimum.

That leaves 1 foot between the cyclist's elbow and the passing car.

If I reach out my right arm, the passing cars will hit my right hand.

This is pretty normal in the urban environment.

If I was to throw out my right arm suddenly and the passing car hits it, it would be MY responsibilty for any damage because,

1/ Riding without due care and attention, and
2/ Causing an obstruction to traffic.

Try it.

Well I have been riding for over 45 years and can tell you that a car that passes close enough for you to touch is way too close. If you did touch it, then it is the driver who has broken the law. Check the oft-quoted picture in the highway code.

I had an incident a few weeks ago where I was passed by a stream of about six cars. All moved out and passed safely except the last, which did not deviate from his line, passed close enough to touch and got the finger as a result. He saw the gesture, pulled over at the next junction and we exchanged words - politely. He actually apologised after I explained why he should have pulled out to overtake.


I know I get far fewer close overtakes - and very little grief from motorists - since I became more assertive in my road position. Perhaps you should give that a try......

 

[ufkacbln]

"Don't worry Noddy, I've read Cyclecraft".

"Yes, but the Goblins who stole my car don't give a toss about Cyclecraft and they'll run you off the road if you get in their way".

"... and then Mr Plod will tell the ignorant drivers off for not driving in a careful and proper manner."


There are two classics on my commute.... both ASLs at a T Junction and a significant proportion turning left. Failing to position yourself in "Primary" is inviting a left hook and is far more dangerous.

 

[ufkacbln]

"Don't worry Noddy, I've read Cyclecraft".

"Yes, but the Goblins who stole my car don't give a toss about Cyclecraft and they'll run you off the road if you get in their way".

"... and then Mr Plod will tell the ignorant drivers off for not driving in a careful and proper manner."


There are two classics on my commute.... both ASLs at a T Junction and a significant proportion turning left. Failing to position yourself in "Primary" is inviting a left hook and is far more dangerous.

 

[BentMikey]

Like the picture of the ASL in use, illustrating HC Rule 178, here

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070332


you mean?

Look at this Jimbo - you are always harping on about the highway code:

178

Advanced stop lines. Some signal-controlled junctions have advanced stop lines to allow cycles to be positioned ahead of other traffic. Motorists, including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the first white line reached if the lights are amber or red and should avoid blocking the way or encroaching on the marked area at other times, e.g. if the junction ahead is blocked. If your vehicle has proceeded over the first white line at the time that the signal goes red, you MUST stop at the second white line, even if your vehicle is in the marked area. Allow cyclists time and space to move off when the green signal shows.


You are this: WRONG and FAIL of paying attention to the highway code.