Entering the box.

[Cab]

The standard lane width is 3m, or 10 ft.

A bike is 2' and a car is 5' (nominal).

The car leave 1' between it and the centre markers. The bike rides 2' from the kerb minimum.

That leaves 1 foot between the cyclist's elbow and the passing car.

Which is too close. At high speed, at nearly any speed, thats too close. If you're accepting of that then good luck to you, its your own business if you wish to ride in a way contrary to every piece of advice available to cyclists from pretty nearly every source.

Bluntly, in the scenario you describe, if the cyclist is two feet from the kerb, then the car has no business overtaking without crossing the centre line of the road. At all. Ever. Even if the bike isn't moving.

If I reach out my right arm, the passing cars will hit my right hand.

This is pretty normal in the urban environment.

No it isn't, not if you ride more assertively. Its normal for you because you're allowing it, and it means you're at greater risk than you should be. That few motons shout at you for rolling on your back and letting them tickle your belly is unsurprising; that you're needlessly increasing your own risk is undoubtedly true. Your business, of course, but if you continue to post advising other cyclists to act in a similarly passive, less safe way then you'll continue to be corrected.

If I was to throw out my right arm suddenly and the passing car hits it, it would be MY responsibilty for any damage because,

1/ Riding without due care and attention, and
2/ Causing an obstruction to traffic.

Try it.

Nope. Go ask plod. If a car comes so close by that you can reach, the driver is in error.

 

[Cab]

The standard lane width is 3m, or 10 ft.

A bike is 2' and a car is 5' (nominal).

The car leave 1' between it and the centre markers. The bike rides 2' from the kerb minimum.

That leaves 1 foot between the cyclist's elbow and the passing car.

Which is too close. At high speed, at nearly any speed, thats too close. If you're accepting of that then good luck to you, its your own business if you wish to ride in a way contrary to every piece of advice available to cyclists from pretty nearly every source.

Bluntly, in the scenario you describe, if the cyclist is two feet from the kerb, then the car has no business overtaking without crossing the centre line of the road. At all. Ever. Even if the bike isn't moving.

If I reach out my right arm, the passing cars will hit my right hand.

This is pretty normal in the urban environment.

No it isn't, not if you ride more assertively. Its normal for you because you're allowing it, and it means you're at greater risk than you should be. That few motons shout at you for rolling on your back and letting them tickle your belly is unsurprising; that you're needlessly increasing your own risk is undoubtedly true. Your business, of course, but if you continue to post advising other cyclists to act in a similarly passive, less safe way then you'll continue to be corrected.

If I was to throw out my right arm suddenly and the passing car hits it, it would be MY responsibilty for any damage because,

1/ Riding without due care and attention, and
2/ Causing an obstruction to traffic.

Try it.

Nope. Go ask plod. If a car comes so close by that you can reach, the driver is in error.

 

[Cab]

The cyclist in white with a red hat. Why isn't he holding his right arm out to tell the motorist he intends to turn Right?
If he is not turning Right, why is he all the way across on the RHS of the reservoir when he intends to proceed forward?

Because that, according to the illustration, to all cycle instruction I'm aware of and to all cycling manuals I'm aware of, is the correct place to be. The entire argument against is because you think cyclists should roll over and ask to be ****ed by motorists, you want cyclists to act dangerously to make life more convenient for others.

 

[Cab]

The cyclist in white with a red hat. Why isn't he holding his right arm out to tell the motorist he intends to turn Right?
If he is not turning Right, why is he all the way across on the RHS of the reservoir when he intends to proceed forward?

Because that, according to the illustration, to all cycle instruction I'm aware of and to all cycling manuals I'm aware of, is the correct place to be. The entire argument against is because you think cyclists should roll over and ask to be ****ed by motorists, you want cyclists to act dangerously to make life more convenient for others.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

Cab has it spot on, Jimbo. As for motorists getting annoyed, I'm a professional driver and the only thing that annoys me about cyclists is when they cower in the gutter as if they're ashamed to be there instead of taking up their road space as they should be. My experience from both sides of this particular divide leads me to believe that motorists respect a cyclist who behaves confidently on the road far more than they do one who sticks to the gutter all the time.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

Cab has it spot on, Jimbo. As for motorists getting annoyed, I'm a professional driver and the only thing that annoys me about cyclists is when they cower in the gutter as if they're ashamed to be there instead of taking up their road space as they should be. My experience from both sides of this particular divide leads me to believe that motorists respect a cyclist who behaves confidently on the road far more than they do one who sticks to the gutter all the time.

 

[gaz]

Cab has it spot on, Jimbo. As for motorists getting annoyed, I'm a professional driver and the only thing that annoys me about cyclists is when they cower in the gutter as if they're ashamed to be there instead of taking up their road space as they should be. My experience from both sides of this particular divide leads me to believe that motorists respect a cyclist who behaves confidently on the road far more than they do one who sticks to the gutter all the time.

true that. i find i get a lot more respect from drivers when i give a hand wave thanks for not overtaking me at a certain point.

I also think the ASL is there for you to get in front of other vehicles for visibility. that means i want to be right in front of them and not hugging the gutter. Often you will find in london that there are easily 6+ in an ASL. two rows of 3. and the one on the far right is never going right you just all filter into a line after the lights. never had any issues with this.

 

[gaz]

Cab has it spot on, Jimbo. As for motorists getting annoyed, I'm a professional driver and the only thing that annoys me about cyclists is when they cower in the gutter as if they're ashamed to be there instead of taking up their road space as they should be. My experience from both sides of this particular divide leads me to believe that motorists respect a cyclist who behaves confidently on the road far more than they do one who sticks to the gutter all the time.

true that. i find i get a lot more respect from drivers when i give a hand wave thanks for not overtaking me at a certain point.

I also think the ASL is there for you to get in front of other vehicles for visibility. that means i want to be right in front of them and not hugging the gutter. Often you will find in london that there are easily 6+ in an ASL. two rows of 3. and the one on the far right is never going right you just all filter into a line after the lights. never had any issues with this.

 

[summerdays]

The cyclist in white with a red hat. Why isn't he holding his right arm out to tell the motorist he intends to turn Right?
If he is not turning Right, why is he all the way across on the RHS of the reservoir when he intends to proceed forward?

Often you will find in london that there are easily 6+ in an ASL. two rows of 3. and the one on the far right is never going right you just all filter into a line after the lights. never had any issues with this.

Agree with Gaz - there could be anything from 1 to 10 other cyclists sharing the ASL with me. I will position myself correctly for the direction that I'm going - so if going right then slightly further to the right - still in front of the car but allowing space for those going straight on.

 

[summerdays]

The cyclist in white with a red hat. Why isn't he holding his right arm out to tell the motorist he intends to turn Right?
If he is not turning Right, why is he all the way across on the RHS of the reservoir when he intends to proceed forward?

Often you will find in london that there are easily 6+ in an ASL. two rows of 3. and the one on the far right is never going right you just all filter into a line after the lights. never had any issues with this.

Agree with Gaz - there could be anything from 1 to 10 other cyclists sharing the ASL with me. I will position myself correctly for the direction that I'm going - so if going right then slightly further to the right - still in front of the car but allowing space for those going straight on.

 

[Alien8]

The problem with ASLs (cycle lanes and other cycle enabling road features) is that they promote the segregation of cyclist from the rest of the traffic. In general this is bad and promotes poor road skills all round. Good/appropriate road positioning can be achieved whether an ASL is there or not. All ASLs let you do is have somewhere to go to if you want to jump a long line of stationary bumper to bumper traffic.

 

[Alien8]

The problem with ASLs (cycle lanes and other cycle enabling road features) is that they promote the segregation of cyclist from the rest of the traffic. In general this is bad and promotes poor road skills all round. Good/appropriate road positioning can be achieved whether an ASL is there or not. All ASLs let you do is have somewhere to go to if you want to jump a long line of stationary bumper to bumper traffic.

 

[eldudino]

Is this what happened to OP?

Nope, I would say my position was between the two cyclists, on top of the bike logo, centrally placed to take the primary as I set off from the junction to inhibit close overtaking for what is really the first 60 yards or so. The junction is left turn or straight ahead only. It's pointless sending a google map as the junction has changed from the stock photo.

 

[eldudino]

Is this what happened to OP?

Nope, I would say my position was between the two cyclists, on top of the bike logo, centrally placed to take the primary as I set off from the junction to inhibit close overtaking for what is really the first 60 yards or so. The junction is left turn or straight ahead only. It's pointless sending a google map as the junction has changed from the stock photo.

 

[eldudino]

i get a lot more respect from drivers when i give a hand wave thanks for not overtaking me at a certain point.

I gave a wave this morning and was awarded with one back. I could hear the car behind me as I was approaching a pinchpoint, took a glance and the motorist stayed. I was going to give them the opportunity to pass as there was plenty of space before the road tightened but she stayed behind me and I went through the tight spot in the primary, she then performed a nice, decisive overtake, giving me plenty of room so I gave a wave and got one back. Some drivers appreciate that cyclists are more vulnerable in these situations and drive accordingly.

I also agree with Rhythmthief, if I see someone hugging the gutter - sometimes a solitary cyclist in club colours (which you tend to see more than you would like - maybe it's the same chap!), I just can't help thinking that they're doing their own thing and not moving as part of the traffic which they normally are. It encourages tight overtakes and you see that from the way other motorists treat them. As always, I give them plenty of room but other car drivers don't necessarily drive with the same appreciation.