Evan's Cycles in trouble - ?

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Dogtrousers

Lefty tighty. Get it righty.
For a short while in the 80s I lived in a bedsit over the FW Evans on the Cut where @mickle worked. We may well have passed each other as I headed out to work and he arrived for a hard day selling things to Richard Ballantyne.

I don't think I had a bike in London at that particular time due to my unsettled living arrangements.

Another time I bought my first ever helmet there. I remember asking the assistant (possibly @mickle himself ) if he thought they were just a fad. I'd just had an off in which I was knocked unconscious and it seemed like an idea. We discussed helmets and mirrors without coming to any conclusion to that I can remember. A bit like Cyclechat really.
 
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Psamathe

Über Member
You do realise these own brands are no different to Specialized, kona, GT etc. None of these brands have their own factories they buy from factories in Asia who pretty much design, engineer, certify and of course manufacture these bikes especially at lower pricing. Many brands hop from factory to factory to get a better price. I don't see why someone like Halfords or Evans should be criticised because they buy from the same factories but charge far less because their logistics model is much simpler. I've no interest in supporting big US brands that damage our economy with more expensive imports for pretty much the same products available elsewhere for less. Surely tts a good thing that Halfords buy directly from factories and have a huge turnover and small margin and offer far better value.
Coming from the same factory does not mean it is of the same quality. Specialist companies specify a standard, will often have their own staff supervising and checking production runs, they have a quality/price balance in the market place and have a reputation to maintain. ie they are sub-contracting.

Ashley's companies seem entirely about profit. They are sourcing (rather than sub-contracting).
 
The big multiples have always expanded in boom times and shut down in bust eras. They dont need to keep a loss making outlet operating.
In contrast , your local independent bike shop will struggle through the downturns to stay in business and offer a repair service.
Use it or lose it.

The Evans own brand Pinnacle bikes are not bad, they are sensibly specced for UK conditions and bulk purchase means a good price and no intermediate company to take a "brand" premium cut of the profits.

The bike industry seems to have a structural problem. Not sure if every industry has this.
 
Coming from the same factory does not mean it is of the same quality. Specialist companies specify a standard, will often have their own staff supervising and checking production runs, they have a quality/price balance in the market place and have a reputation to maintain. ie they are sub-contracting.

Ashley's companies seem entirely about profit. They are sourcing (rather than sub-contracting).

yes - same factory doesn;t mean anything

When I worked for Littlewoods I knew a bloke who worked in quality control

He often visited the factories that made the clothes they sold
he said he would go to a factory and see the place making much cheaper clothes for other people on exactly the same machines with exactly the same cloth
it was just that the stitching would be nowhere near as good
and the buttons would be lower quality that would not last
and the finishing was not as precise
and the checks on the lines would be non existant


He reckoned that that was the reason that Matalan managed to undercut Littlewoods shops
but the shirts etc looked the same in the packing to the average "man on the street"
which is one reason (amongst many) why the Littlewoods shops all closed down
 

midlandsgrimpeur

Senior Member
Slightly off tangent, but we used to have this discussion on the old BR forum, how does Fraser Group make any money? I still can't get my head around the sales/profits it generates when every anecdotal piece of evidence (myself included) suggests that there is never anyone in these stores buying anything. My Evans is a ghost town and always has been since Ashley took over, there is a Flannels and several other Fraser group brands local to me and they are always empty, even on a Saturday afternoon. They are clearly selling goods but when this actually occurs is a mystery to me.

The great shame with Evans is that pre Ashley, my local was actually a decent store with long serving staff that actually knew something about bikes and the products they were selling. They would also price match which made it handy for picking up small consumables like chains, tires, bar tape and so on.
 
Slightly off tangent, but we used to have this discussion on the old BR forum, how does Fraser Group make any money? I still can't get my head around the sales/profits it generates when every anecdotal piece of evidence (myself included) suggests that there is never anyone in these stores buying anything. My Evans is a ghost town and always has been since Ashley took over, there is a Flannels and several other Fraser group brands local to me and they are always empty, even on a Saturday afternoon. They are clearly selling goods but when this actually occurs is a mystery to me.

The great shame with Evans is that pre Ashley, my local was actually a decent store with long serving staff that actually knew something about bikes and the products they were selling. They would also price match which made it handy for picking up small consumables like chains, tires, bar tape and so on.

Some "bricks and mortar" store only act as a front piece for the on line sales
and a place for free pickups by customers and a warehouse for the home delivery network

but it can be complicated

In "the old days" when I worked for Littlewoods - the stores were empty most of the year
all the profit was made before Christmas - every other week the stores ran at a loss

One director was slated for saying we would be better off locking all the doors and paying someone to stand in front of them and giving everyone who tried to get in £1
It was a very unpopular statement but it was based on financial reality
I mostly worked on the Home Shopping systems
and the systems load in December was many many times higher than any other month

which caused problems when external companies tried to tune the computers using data from February and convince us that it would all work
we knew we had to use the loading data we had saved from the previous December

shops and finances are weird
 

icowden

Guru
Location
Surrey
Apropos of nothing, but I haven't trusted Evans since they tried to kill me.

I bought a Tern Joe in about 2014. It was great but the hinge kept breaking (design fault with that model in that particular iteration). Finally Evans decided that they couldn't get the replacement hinge components but what they *could* do was completely replace the frame with that of a Dahon which had a much stronger hinge.

Seems reasonable right? Well that's what I thought too.

Well, until the day that I was cycling home from the station when there was suddenly a loud noise and I ended up flat on my back with the rear derailleur impaling my arse cheek.

You see, the key difference between the Dahon and the Tern, despite being closely related, is that the Tern uses a much shorter seat post. So when I had the seat at the correct height, just below the "max" line, the end of the post was *above* the strengthened part of the seat post socket. As I cycled the frame just shattered at the seat post socket and I went backward and onto the rear wheel.

Conversations were had with Evans. I was kindly offered a brand new latest model Tern Joe P27 - the top edition (my original was the cheapest edition - couldn't afford the best one). Well "kindly" occurred after I suggested that I was happy to pursue a personal injury and negligence claim...
 
Last time I used Halfrods to fix a bike it was my first ebike - soon after I moved here so before I found the LBS

They were fine because it was a simple job

BUT the ebike system wouldn;t work after

they could fix it because they "had to wait until Pete gets back from holiday"
turns out Pete was great and could fix anything
but he was the only one there that had any experience or training beyond the very very basic!!


On a similar subject
my cousin was a motor mechanic
the type that has worked in back street garages - and even owned out for a while - and spent his work life fixing anything and everything

When the garage became unsustainable he sold it and got a job with Halfords
not in the normal places
but as a roving trouble shooter going wherever he was needed fixing whatever the normal people broke

he was simply there to get them out of potential legal problems and compensation caused by undertrained staff

same concept - pay in nuts and only get the monkeys (or something like that!)
 
Coming from the same factory does not mean it is of the same quality. Specialist companies specify a standard, will often have their own staff supervising and checking production runs, they have a quality/price balance in the market place and have a reputation to maintain. ie they are sub-contracting.

Ashley's companies seem entirely about profit. They are sourcing (rather than sub-contracting).

Halfords bikes have an extremely low recall rate compared to other brands despite their huge sales in the UK. Most of the premium brands have much higher safety recall rates. There are good reason for this. Halfords goes for a general spec for average people so tend to be much stronger with higher weight limits. So they are structurally much stronger. Higher performance bikes tend to have weaker components, butted tubes, carbon fibre parts, lightweight components so they can make lighter faster bikes. However there is huge crossover of bikes and you can see a Halfords £500 bike easily competing with a £900 Specialized bike for example for very similar specs. It really depends on what you perceive as quality, some might consider safety and reliability as quality others might consider being lightweight and more performance focused as quality. Carbon fibre frames for example which are open mould tend to be stronger and safer than the frames customised for a brand. Open mould are sold all around the world with lots of different brands and made in huge numbers over many years so get perfected and improved where as propriety custom frames are obviously manufactured in much smaller quantities and could be short-lived.

You shouldn't confuse perceived quality with actual quality. We all have are own perceptions on quality or bias but there is often real data that shows which brands are reliable. Warranty Direct did a study of car reliability years ago from all their warranty contracts data and German cars were by far the least reliable but many people perceive German cars to be good quality. Where as many people believe Japanese cars to be reliable and they actually are the most reliable. Different people have different views on quality some based on the evidence and some based on their own bias or accepting marketing.

Many premium brands spend a huge amount of marketing and sponsorship where as many budget brands don't so its easy to get manipulated. Most bikes feature the same components i.e. lots of Shimano products which are the same quality whichever bike you fit them too for the same actual product. A Trek mountain bike with Tourney gearing and freewheel is inferior to a Carrera mountain bike with Altus gearing and a casette even if they do sell at the same price. There is no magic in the Trek brand being slapped on at the factory like Fuji-ta who make a huge amount of bikes for multiple brands.

Ultimately unless you have a very high budget you will always get a better bike at Halfords for the same money or less because their margin is less and logistics are so much simpler. However there are real manufacturers mixed in with basically importers, Giant and Merida are real manufacturers so the logistics gets different because they actually manufacture their own products, frames, forks, wheels etc but they still have the same range of components fitted.

Also if you are a importer basically swopping manufacturers all the time to get a better price how can quality be consistent? Many brands moved away from having their bikes manufactured by Merida or Giant because they became too expensive so went to cheaper factories so there is a quality difference between years. Cannondale has used lots of different factories and some factories have created huge issues. I remember a video by sick/supreme biker on youtube where he shows the appalling manufacturing of the Cannondale bike he bought for a customer, the assembly was completely wrong at the factory. Cannondale of the past was jokingly called 'Crack'n'fail' because so many of their frames were breaking because they made them too light and weak.

I really don't think there is any tighter controls for the premium brands at these Asian factories, I see no evidence of it at all, no data that supports it.
 
For a short while in the 80s I lived in a bedsit over the FW Evans on the Cut where @mickle worked. We may well have passed each other as I headed out to work and he arrived for a hard day selling things to Richard Ballantyne.

I don't think I had a bike in London at that particular time due to my unsettled living arrangements.

Another time I bought my first ever helmet there. I remember asking the assistant (possibly @mickle himself ) if he thought they were just a fad. I'd just had an off in which I was knocked unconscious and it seemed like an idea. We discussed helmets and mirrors without coming to any conclusion to that I can remember. A bit like Cyclechat really.

Its a small world innit
 

Punkawallah

Veteran
Because who would bother paying for training for the pay we get.

Indeed. I volunteered at a charity bike shop, and made enquiries as to Cytech training. To get their ‘mechanic ticket’ it was going to cost me £2,000, two weeks food and accommodation on the other side of the country. Game was not worth the candle.
 
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OP
simongt

simongt

Guru
Location
Norwich
he said he would go to a factory and see the place making much cheaper clothes for other people on exactly the same machines with exactly the same cloth
it was just that the stitching would be nowhere near as good
and the buttons would be lower quality that would not last
and the finishing was not as precise
and the checks on the lines would be non existant
As most of us are probably aware, many folk are no longer interested in anything that lasts as it'll probably be out of fashion in a few months anyway. Which is why firms like Primark are so popular. :dry:
 
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