Expensive components on cheap bike

[wafter]

That's something I also have noticed. Most people I know who changed their groupsets to ultegra or dura ace...they just did it because they could afford it. Benefits of those groupsets over what they had? Largely intangible, according to them.

Still, all the changes they made, they made because they make them happy. Which is fair play

Absolutely - it's their money to spend as they see fit and if they've done their homework and gone it eyes-open as to what to expect, fair play IMO.

End of the day I think most on here have an appreciation for mechanical items and if you have the money it's nice to have examples of nicely-engineered products just to appreciate their intrinsic qualities.

The people I struggle to deal with are those who suck up all the marketing dross and buy high-end gear because they think it makes them look superior than everyone else

Unfortunately for me I'm not blessed with enormous amounts of disposible income so all my bike-related decisions are made firmly on the basis of value and as such I find myself at the low-mid price-points.. if it gives 80% the performance for 50% the cost, I'm in!

All that said I don't feel the need for displays of conspicuous consumption and tend not to concern myself with stuff I can't afford / gear that would yield little intrinsic benefit over what I have, so in this regard I'm fairly content with my best-bang-for-buck gear

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Indeed. As much as I like worthwhile tech and meaningful progress; IMO it's ridiculous that you can spend £13k on a road bike when compared against the work that goes into other similarly-priced engineered products and the work that goes into them (motorbikes for example).

There's something to what you say but the prices of various things often make no sense, on a superficial level at least. I think bicycles get singled out because for most people as a child they cost 100 quid, and also because they get compared to motor vehicles which benefit from huge economies of scale and operate on wafer thin margins (reliant on financing, servicing etc).

Cost goes up exponentially as you try to refine a product or part. People often compare the cost of a high end bicycle (£13k) to a high end motorcycle (£20k) but it's a bad comparison since a £13k bicycle is a very niche product that is more or less what a professional racer uses. A better comparison would be to a Moto GP motorbike. I saw one once at a show and made a remark to a friend on the funny black brake disks. The stand supervisor overheard me and told me that these carbon fibre brake disks cost £5000 and only last one race. A full bike is worth something like 2 or 3 million dollars apparently.

I bought a computer hard drive the other day for £90. This is a device smaller than a paperback book and capable of storing 48 million million 1/0 values magnetically in physical locations which are read at a rate of 1 billion per second by a physical arm that moves across the disk! It's pure witchcraft and a testiment to economies of scale. On the other hand, the last time I bought wood I spent £90 on a board of roughsawn oak, and that literally grows on trees. Go figure.

 

[Sharky]

Having just one bike used to be the norm. When I first joined a club, I had just one bike and used it for winter and summer club runs, training and time trials. Even a few road races. I did have a dedicated set of racing wheels though.

But in the last twenty years, my stable has grown to 4 and I really appreciate having a dedicated TT bike and summer road bikes.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

Call me mad, but I did this a while back I bought a Raleigh MTB it was a Y-frame in alloy just loved it but the components were crap to say the least...... I started to uprate every thing XT hubs on Marvic rims, full XT chainset, and brakes, carbon seatpost and handlebars next the suspension Pace front forks and Strata rear.
I love the bike now it rides like a bike should be very smooth OK it is still a Raleigh and always will be, but I love ir even if it did cost an arm and a leg

Doesn't sound anything like what I know as a Raleigh; more like a BSO with a Raleigh badge on it. I have several Raleighs, and all of them are good quality bikes and mostly still running on their original set of mechanicals, even after 46 years in one case.

 

[wafter]

There's something to what you say but the prices of various things often make no sense, on a superficial level at least. I think bicycles get singled out because for most people as a child they cost 100 quid, and also because they get compared to motor vehicles which benefit from huge economies of scale and operate on wafer thin margins (reliant on financing, servicing etc).

Cost goes up exponentially as you try to refine a product or part. People often compare the cost of a high end bicycle (£13k) to a high end motorcycle (£20k) but it's a bad comparison since a £13k bicycle is a very niche product that is more or less what a professional racer uses. A better comparison would be to a Moto GP motorbike. I saw one once at a show and made a remark to a friend on the funny black brake disks. The stand supervisor overheard me and told me that these carbon fibre brake disks cost £5000 and only last one race. A full bike is worth something like 2 or 3 million dollars apparently.

I bought a computer hard drive the other day for £90. This is a device smaller than a paperback book and capable of storing 48 million million 1/0 values magnetically in physical locations which are read at a rate of 1 billion per second by a physical arm that moves across the disk! It's pure witchcraft and a testiment to economies of scale. On the other hand, the last time I bought wood I spent £90 on a board of roughsawn oak, and that literally grows on trees. Go figure.

Absolutely.. bikes being the relevant example here but the trend of exponetially decaying performancerice ratios applies to most other stuff too; just as in your Moto GP example. Certainly economies of scale play a part within any given market, are relevant in some examples more than others and can skew things if comparing dissimilar types of product but the basic trend remains the same as long as there's someone willing to pay the asking price.

For the level of "work" (setup, expertise, QC, energy, materials..) your oak seems like poor value compared to the hard drive; however within each of these markets you'll still see a trend whereby examples will occupy the very top end at dizzyingly disproportionate prices relative to the median values of the more mainstream offerings below - I'm thinking silly-dense storage media and highly figured and sought-after timber.

Best-case those who shell out so much more for top-end gear will be getting at least some tangible benefits (no matter how small), while worst-case they're just allowing the marketing muppets to have their pants down

 

[numbnuts]

Doesn't sound anything like what I know as a Raleigh; more like a BSO with a Raleigh badge on it. I have several Raleighs, and all of them are good quality bikes and mostly still running on their original set of mechanicals, even after 46 years in one case.

I was a proper Raleigh bike I've even spoken to the guy that designed the frame.

 

[mickle]

I bought a mid nineties Marin hybrid for £35 and have since spent many pounds swapping out all the parts to make a half decent chromoly touring bike. It's allowed me to piss about with brazing extra mounts on to it. Eventually I imagine I'll replace the frame with something hand made, but it'll do perfectly well for now.

 

[davidphilips]

what about buying an expensive used frame perhaps a titanium or stainless steel swapping over your bits selling your old frame and replace /upgrade bits as they wear out?

 

[Fab Foodie]

In terms of bang for bucks it's difficult to see past tyres

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/

Depending on what tyres you have now, it isn't difficult to reduce rolling resistance by 10 watts. For a "normal" cyclist that may give an extra 6-7% on a ride. Of course there is potentially a trade-off between lower rolling resistance and lower puncture protection but that isn't always the case. The website has loads of good info

FWIW I use Continental 5000s as they seem to offer a really good combination of low rolling resistance and decent protection. They aren't cheap....but in terms of bang for bucks they're a zillion times better than, say, a groupset upgrade

Agree whole-heartedly.
Life is too short to ride crap tyres. The difference a good set of tyres makes over a cheap set is huge.

 

[Mark pallister]

In terms of bang for bucks it's difficult to see past tyres

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/

Depending on what tyres you have now, it isn't difficult to reduce rolling resistance by 10 watts. For a "normal" cyclist that may give an extra 6-7% on a ride. Of course there is potentially a trade-off between lower rolling resistance and lower puncture protection but that isn't always the case. The website has loads of good info

FWIW I use Continental 5000s as they seem to offer a really good combination of low rolling resistance and decent protection. They aren't cheap....but in terms of bang for bucks they're a zillion times better than, say, a groupset upgrade

I use Schwalbe ones and they puncture easily and don’t last long ,5000s for me next

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

I bought a mid nineties Marin hybrid for £35 and have since spent many pounds swapping out all the parts to make a half decent chromoly touring bike.

Although the Marin was a cheap bike for you to buy used, it still wasn't a cheap bike in quality terms though, so the decent frame justified the fitment of decent parts to. Somebody else just took the hit on the depreciation, not you.
I've got several 531/501/4130 steel bikes that all cost me peanuts, but would have been a good chunk of cash to their original owners who bought them new.

 

[Levo-Lon]

Cheap frame is a cheap frame..buying it some nice parts won't make it a quality frame,or a good bike.

Same as a nice suit or dress doesn't make a person any different , it's just a make over on what's underneath.
If their horrible , they'll still be horrible

 

[Blue Hills]

Agree whole-heartedly.
Life is too short to ride crap tyres. The difference a good set of tyres makes over a cheap set is huge.

Or good cheap tyres. My hewitt rides far better on some super elcheapo vittorias from planetx than it ever did on the contis that came with the bike as new, which were surely (as full retail) the most expensive tyres I have ever bought. Have had some vittorias from planet x for not much more than a fiver.

 

[BigMeatball]

According to this Road.cc article, based on a typical setup and RRPs a complete 105 R7000 groupset costs around £723 and weighs 2780g, while the Ultegra R8000 equivalent costs £1133 and weighs 2589g. That's about a 57% increase in price for a mass reduction of around 7%, or over £2 per gram of mass saved.

I literally just read this article

You can tell that the difference between 105 and Ultegra is not that big and also you can tell that many riders prefer to save some bucks and buy 105 because the difference in prices between the 2 groupsets keeps reducing in total terms (or, to be put in another term, people keep choosing 105 so its price is holding up slightly better than the ultegra one)

I'm looking on wiggle for the a head to head price comparison between 105 and Ultegra (same specs)

105 R7020 = £550
Ultegra R8020 = 847

Difference in this case is "just" £297

I think for me £300 of difference is still making me sway towards the 105, but if the difference keeps reducing to say £200, that's when I'd pick the Ultegra.

 

[wafter]

Or good cheap tyres. My hewitt rides far better on some super elcheapo vittorias from planetx than it ever did on the contis that came with the bike as new, which were surely (as full retail) the most expensive tyres I have ever bought. Have had some vittorias from planet x for not much more than a fiver.

Indeed - Conti GP5000s appear to be the unquestioned king of road tyres and I'd love a pair, however at 3-4 times the cost of what I consider acceptable alternatives (when reduced) they're currently an unacceptable spend for me.

Did you get the Zaffiro Pro slicks by any chance? I've just bought a pair of regular 25c Zaffiro Pros for a tenner a pop from CRC to replace the blown rear tyre on my shed (last Specialized product I'll ever buy). I have the Zaffiros as original fitment on my Boardman and so far they've been impeccible; no punctures in around 1200 miles (no doubt jinxed now), decent grip, good wear characteristics (centre tread now gone off the rear, still visible on the front), reasonable comfort and acceptable rolling resistance that doesn't feel like you're riding through treacle.

From figures gleaned from similar tyres I'm maybe giving away 15-20w per pair in RR compared to the Contis, which with my matchstick legs would be about 10-15% of my mean output over a ride. Factor this in against aero drag and that might push my mean ride speed up by around 3-4% - an unquestionably worthy gain if competing / keeping up with others on a group ride, but really of little relevance to the mostly solo, recreational rider I am.

I'm only competing with myself and as such additional speed achieved through kit upgrades isn't really relevant, while currently my limited budget dictates that £50 in my pocket is worth more to me than five minutes on my ride time. Of course others will feel differently dependent on application / attitude / budget