FNRttC - could it be a club?

[Aperitif]

"The Wellington Architecs" or "The Reigate Hill Mob" (starring Alistair Simplex)

 

[StuAff]

PP: No certainly not you; the location was down Reigate Hill immediately after Stu's crash.

PS not often am I overtaken going up hill except by young whippets.

I think Pete was referring to the last ride, not the genteel (he wasn't on that one!)....

 

[gbs]

I've been thinking through the admin thing.



The basics don't include a waiver, but, to be honest, I've always had my doubts about these.

Simon, I think you could be a little more optimistic. Waivers should be effective unless gross negligence or wilful misconduct could be proven. The nil payment to leaders should clarify the free asssociation nature of FNTttC so it could be agued that leaders do not have a duty of care. I am not a lawyer so the value of my advice is less than the cost of a postage stamp and my fee invoice will not follow. I expect that someone on the forum will have an authorative view.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Greg, go as fast as you like on the outside.

The prats I mentioned in my earlier post passed on the inside, with no warning call, into a gap between me and the roadside of about 5 feet. There was plenty of room on the outside so I cannot imagine what was going through their minds at the time.

I think the problem arises when THEY are going around the outside and I am going around the outside of them. Overtakers seldom seem to look over the right shoulder on FNRttC and never ever look when in the act of overtaking. I've been the 4th man on the outside, the winger, the guy in the wrong side of the road before now.

My avoir dupois combined with gravity insists I either wear out my brake blocks or overtake.

 

[gbs]

I think the problem arises when THEY are going around the outside and I am going around the outside of them. Overtakers seldom seem to look over the right shoulder on FNRttC and never ever look when in the act of overtaking. I've been the 4th man on the outside, the winger, the guy in the wrong side of the road before now.

UhHuh - penny has dropped! Never go that fast downhill myself. Happy landings.

 

[dellzeqq]

I think we're going to have to have a 20mph speed limit on Reigate Hill.

I'm reminded of the Martlets ride. Two stern marshals pulled the riders over at the top of the hll and told them to go down slowly. Chastened, the Martleteers pottered down the hill. When the tail of the ride released the marshals what did they do? All I can tell you is that I heard one of them go 'wheeeeeeeeeeeeeee....' as their brake lights zipped out of sight.

 

[dellzeqq]

Right, so I'm looking for a blonde.....

 

[PpPete]

All the TECs are experts. The standard of mechanical talent is way higher than the average branch of Evans, and the scope of work considerably smaller. I am, however, toying with the idea of registering all CTC members who TEC as Rides Leaders.

None of us doubt their expertise.... but in the unlikely event of litigation how would that stand up?

Imagine the BANG on the Brighton ride happening not immediately after puncture had been mended as on that occasion, but halfway down a fast descent a few minutes later...potential for serious accident. Did the TEC check the maximum pressure printed on the sidewall of the tyre? did he have a recently calibrated gauge on his pump ?

We all know this is pretty fanciful....but would a potential insurer see it that way? Does making the TECs "Ride Leaders" give them any particular standing or protection from malicious prosecution?

 

[GrumpyGregry]

UhHuh - penny has dropped! Never go that fast downhill myself. Happy landings.

It's because all my instincts are those of an mtb-er where

Speed is your friend
Brakes are for stopping
If applying the brakes without intending to stop you were not going fast enough in the first place.

 

[dellzeqq]

None of us doubt their expertise.... but in the unlikely event of litigation how would that stand up?

Imagine the BANG on the Brighton ride happening not immediately after puncture had been mended as on that occasion, but halfway down a fast descent a few minutes later...potential for serious accident. Did the TEC check the maximum pressure printed on the sidewall of the tyre? did he have a recently calibrated gauge on his pump ?

We all know this is pretty fanciful....but would a potential insurer see it that way? Does making the TECs "Ride Leaders" give them any particular standing or protection from malicious prosecution?

it is fanciful. But it raises another question, that I might return to later - which is that each rider has read the basics and said they understand them. That particular tyre was no good (and I can take steps to prevent a repetition). But, in general, if the TEC's is no less careful than one would normally expect, and it's clear that people have a responsibility for their bikes and you consider the risk........

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Oh I do hope not. We deliberated at the top of Reigate for quite some time and decided that the warning should end with the phrase "and no ****ing about" with the "about" to be pronounced "abaht". All I can say is that one of them, blonder of hair than the other, spent some time perfecting the correct pronunciation. I would hate to think that, as soon as the rest of us had left, they forgot.

An interesting point. I do a bit of risk management professionally, and have had the safety of others drummed into me in one of my other hobbies (ret'd). So here is my take...

isn't the essence of FNRttC, at least in part, that on your own head be it?

I remember one bike at HPC, a BSO, and me thinking "**** that for a game of soldiers" Sure enough by Gatwick it and its owner were done. If we set off down the road of insisting that people moderate their speed on Reigate or Ditchling or Lonesome or Slugwash, rather than sternly advising them to do so, might we not need to do a Dr Bike before every ride to ensure their bike is safe?

Point is, in short, they are all grown ups, riding on public roads, on a route that has been recce'd by sensible risk averse types, and thus it is up to each rider if it goes Pete Tong unless someone else has been reckless then the victim might have a case. But even then in organised 'sports', like my beloved rugby union, this principle is well established in case law; you know what you are getting into, you know what you might reasonably expect risk wise, and no one forces you to participate. So if the risk triggers, even if the consequences are catastrophic; tough.

Our much maligned H&S culture does seek to remove risk, it seeks to reduce it to levels that are reasonable in relation to the nature of the activity. Cycling, and cycling in a group, and cycling in a group at night, is not without its risks. (Not least burnt out retina if last month's rear lights were owt to go by)

That is not to say lawyers cannot argue another point of view but then disputation is their stock-in-trade.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

it is fanciful. But it raises another question, that I might return to later - which is that each rider has read the basics and said they understand them. That particular tyre was no good (and I can take steps to prevent a repetition). But, in general, if the TEC's is no less careful than one would normally expect, and it's clear that people have a responsibility for their bikes and you consider the risk........

tyre goes bang down Dyke Road Drive. Four other rider, following at speed come off in the ensuing crash, one breaks spinal column, in a chair for life, another is hit by the taxi impatiently tail gating the group, etc., etc.. Evening Argus has a field day. No more night time fun?

Therein lies the reason(s) why I won't let anyone else fix my bikes, (and make the tyres as ******** proof as I can at some expense) and why I have 3rd party insurance. But I do wonder if I need 1st part cover too sometimes. Pothole, cat eye, manhole, bosh, down I go. Goodnight Vienna. Nasty.

 

[Aperitif]

I think Susie and Claudine, riding together, present an awful hazard to the passing cyclist; one's eyes are immediately averted from the highway and it is an extreme effort to return to the task in hand...
Could this be risque-assessement epitomised?
I'm a bit behind in all this sort of stuff.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

^

I've often thought it, but never said it out loud!

 

[PpPete]

I think Susie and Claudine, riding together, present an awful hazard to the passing cyclist; one's eyes are immediately averted from the highway and it is an extreme effort to return to the task in hand...
Could this be risque-assessement epitomised?
I'm a bit behind in all this sort of stuff.

ROFL.... you ARE going to get some stick...