Frame sourcing for new project

[Andy in Germany]

I'm looking for a frame to build another touring bike. I'm going to try one more time to build one from scrap before I go and buy a modern(ish) tourer.

So far I'm researching and hoarding frames. I'd like to repeat what I did for the touring bike photographed above: find an old Chromoly framed bike with V-Brakes that can take 3/8 gears, get lugs brazed on the main bar, and swap the handlebars for randonneur style drops.

I'm aiming for a 28" wheeled frame as one issue with my current frame is that it's a bit small: if I raise the saddle to the ideal height for my legs, it puts more weight on my wrists, and I can't raise the handlebars much.

It needs to be able to take a luggage rack at rear, mudguards, and low riders at the front.

If possible, I'd like a lugged frame, just because I think it looks nice.

So far I've got two possibilities: an old Schwinn and a Winora (German brand). I've not been able to look at the Winora that closely as it's in the bike warehouse, but one major difference I've noticed is that the Schwinn has vertical axle droppers and the Winora has horizontal droppers. My gut feeling is to avoid horizontal droppers, but given that my current bike has these and has worked perfectly well for several years, is that really necessary?

 

[EckyH]

My gut feeling is to avoid horizontal droppers, but given that my current bike has these and has worked perfectly well for several years, is that really necessary?

It depends.
If you are going to use very light "boutique" quick release skewers, then vertical dropouts are the way to go.
If you are going to use QR skewers with internal excenters and (hardened?) steel surfaces like basic Shimano Deore or similar, then I wouldn't mind horizontal dropouts. The dropouts are not exactly horizontal, but slightly sloped forward. Therefore the weight on the frame (luggage and the rider) apply a force that pushes the rear axle "backwards" while the tension of the chain pulls the axle forward. The resulting force is the difference between these two forces.

I'd use good midrange QR skewers in your situation and wouldn't overthink that.

E.

 

[88robb]

Winora with horizontal dropouts. Your current bike uses them fine, so no problem there. Vertical dropouts on the Schwinn limit your options. Just confirm the Winora is chromoly and takes 28 wheels the dropouts won’t affect your wrist position, frame size will.

 

[Punkawallah]

Horizontal drop-outs give you more tyre options before they interfere with the rear stays.

 

[davidphilips]

My thoughts are keep a watch on Ebay, facebook and any other online sites plus any second had shops, most of my bikes have been bought as frames and built but tbh its perhaps better to buy a used bike, also 28 inch wheels are the same size as 700 wheels, the older 27 inch wheels are actually larger.
Thorn bikes are great heavy duty touring bikes as are saint john bikes they are made by Thorn perhaps not as heavy duty but dawes galaxys are also great some really old galaxys are more like raceing bikes, some are alloy some titanium but most are reynolds, another thought do you move your saddle forward when you raise it? If not try moveing the saddle forward by about a third of the distance you raise it

 

[Andy in Germany]

Work interfered and I neglected this thread, sorry about that.

The Winora is still in the warehouse until the mandatory waiting period is over, but the Schwinn has arrived and a new bike has turned up; a very elderly small-framed Basso. Here's the Schwinn:

And the newcomer we discovered buried behind some really hideous bikes, an elderly Basso bike; I have to admit I'd never heard of Basso bikes before today:

This caught my eye because it has a few features I'd like:

Lugged frame
Lugs for bottom bar shifters.
Short top bar

Also, it's apparently built for drop bars, which means the geometry will be designed for them.

On the other hand as it was probably a "racing bike for everyday use" it may be a bit less robust than the Schwinn, those stays look a bit fine for heavy luggage.

So far, both have the essentials:

Chormoloy/Chromoly steel frame
Cantilever brakes (I'll convert these to V-Brakes)
Space for 3/8 gearing


I'm aiming to build a touring bike with:

Dynamo lighting
Drop handlebars
Luggage rack
3/8 gears, using bottom bar shifters
V-Brakes

Both will involve some minor surgery on the frame and brazing parts for brake cables or lugs, so that's about equal.

Any thoughts? Any dangerous things Ive missed in one frame or the other that I should avoid?

The Winora will be excavated from the massive storage area in a few weeks, so I'll have a good look at it then.

 

[Andy in Germany]

Forgot the other pictures of the Basso:

Cantilevers: convertible to V-Brakes?

Lugs for luggage racks. Are these a bit delicate? Note screw to hold axle straight.

 

[EckyH]

Any thoughts?

I'd take the Basso. The model's name probably is "Scout".

Cantilevers: convertible to V-Brakes?

Probably. It could be that you'll need to be creative if you plan to use wide rims, because - afaik - V-Brakes can become problematic if the distance between the brake mounts is on the narrow side.

Drop handlebars
[...]
V-Brakes

You surely have in mind that V-Brakes and cantilever brakes need different cable pull ratios and therefore either special brake levers are necessary or that a so called travel agent is needed.

E.

 

[Andy in Germany]

My thoughts are keep a watch on Ebay, facebook and any other online sites plus any second had shops, most of my bikes have been bought as frames and built but tbh its perhaps better to buy a used bike, also 28 inch wheels are the same size as 700 wheels, the older 27 inch wheels are actually larger.
Thorn bikes are great heavy duty touring bikes as are saint john bikes they are made by Thorn perhaps not as heavy duty but dawes galaxys are also great some really old galaxys are more like raceing bikes, some are alloy some titanium but most are reynolds, another thought do you move your saddle forward when you raise it? If not try moveing the saddle forward by about a third of the distance you raise it

Dawes bikes aren't generally available in Germany: I may have seen one in the last 5 years, if I had a Galaxy in the warehouse I'd have used that, no question.

With 500+ bikes coming through the warehouse every year, I'm hoping to get a frame from there...

 

[Andy in Germany]

I'd take the Basso. The model's name probably is "Scout".

How can you tell?

It'll have a new name by the time I'm finished: I already built the "Wayfarer" and the "Vagabond" so I'll have to come up with something different. Current favourite for a colour is a dark Azure Blue.

Probably. It could be that you'll need to be creative if you plan to use wide rims, because - afaik - V-Brakes can become problematic if the distance between the brake mounts is on the narrow side.

What is "wide" in this context?

I thought the rim being too narrow would be an issue, not too wide: I've had problems before when swapping Cantis for V-Brakes with the V's not reaching the wheel.

You surely have in mind that V-Brakes and cantilever brakes need different cable pull ratios and therefore either special brake levers are necessary or that a so called travel agent is needed.

I'll use Tektro V-Brake levers, as I did on the 26" rebuild:

I used Problem solvers on my Xtracycle longtail for a few years before finally changing to v-brake levers. They never worked very well so I wouldn't use them again...

 

[EckyH]

How can you tell?

"Scout" is the only matching Basso model I know. But I don't know every model of every year. Therefore it could be an other model. So it's a guess, but not completely out of thin air.

E.

 

[wafter]

Some random thoughts..

I think Basso is a reasonably well respected name, but don't know much else about them. That example does appear to have a tiny frame; something to consider if your current frame is too small.

It does appear to have reasonably long chainstays which would suggest a less "racey" intended use.

What do you need the additional braze-ons for? This seems to add a massive amount more ballache and cost to what otherwise should just be a case of swapping bolt-on parts.

I can't really recommend any specific models as tourers tend to be less popular / conspicious within brand lineups, along with being pretty territory-specific, so you're probably best off continuing as you are and just looking for suitable frames based on spec, on an ad-hoc basis.

Finally I think the Tektro (RL520s?) that are pretty much the defacto modern drop-bar lever for V-brakes might be discontinued (they seemed to be drying up when I bought mine a year or so ago, and are no longer on their website) so bear in mind that sourcing another set of these might be easier said than done; at least from the usual outlets.

 

[EckyH]

What is "wide" in this context?

25mm or more outer width of the rim, corresponding to 20mm or more inner rim width.

I think Basso is a reasonably well respected name

It is. I've got two Basso road frames (mid 1990s Loto and 2003 ZerK), both of them are really well made.

Finally I think the Tektro (RL520s?) that are pretty much the defacto modern drop-bar brake lever for V-brakes might be discontinued (they seeme to be drying up when I bought mine a year or so ago, and are no longer on their website) so bear in mind that sourcing another set of these might be easier said than done; at least from the usual outlets.

If needed I could provide a used pair.

E.

 

[Jameshow]

Work interfered and I neglected this thread, sorry about that.

The Winora is still in the warehouse until the mandatory waiting period is over, but the Schwinn has arrived and a new bike has turned up; a very elderly small-framed Basso. Here's the Schwinn:


View attachment 804768



View attachment 804767

And the newcomer we discovered buried behind some really hideous bikes, an elderly Basso bike; I have to admit I'd never heard of Basso bikes before today:


View attachment 804769

This caught my eye because it has a few features I'd like:

Lugged frame
Lugs for bottom bar shifters.
Short top bar

Also, it's apparently built for drop bars, which means the geometry will be designed for them.

On the other hand as it was probably a "racing bike for everyday use" it may be a bit less robust than the Schwinn, those stays look a bit fine for heavy luggage.

So far, both have the essentials:

Chormoloy/Chromoly steel frame
Cantilever brakes (I'll convert these to V-Brakes)
Space for 3/8 gearing


I'm aiming to build a touring bike with:

Dynamo lighting
Drop handlebars
Luggage rack
3/8 gears, using bottom bar shifters
V-Brakes

Both will involve some minor surgery on the frame and brazing parts for brake cables or lugs, so that's about equal.

Any thoughts? Any dangerous things Ive missed in one frame or the other that I should avoid?

The Winora will be excavated from the massive storage area in a few weeks, so I'll have a good look at it then.

Deffo the swinn that basso looks tired to me?? Unless you want a traditional frame in which case get a Raleigh or dawes etc.

 

[Andy in Germany]

Deffo the swinn that basso looks tired to me?? Unless you want a traditional frame in which case get a Raleigh or dawes etc.

Dawes bikes are almost unheard of: If I could get an old Galaxy I'd have used it.

Raleigh bikes are a tiny bit more common, by which I mean I've seen about five in the last five years, and one of those is mine.