FNRttC Friday Night Ride to the Coast Emsworth 20th April

[StuAff]

I'd be tempted to argue that the Highway Code's "sounding one's horn" does not cover what actually happened, and what there are witnesses to. But it's up to the claimant how much energy he's got for a fight with the other party's insurers without legal support.

+1.

 

[rb58]

It wasn't the horn that was the issue, it was the aggressive nature of the pass - millimetres from my right arm - at speed, and clearly designed to scare. The fact the horn was being sounded at the same time is additional.

BTW, I haven't heard from anyone on this for statement purposes.

 

[martint235]

Once I've finished jury service I'll give Sussex Police a call. RJW lady said she was disappointed too but that her duty was to advise me on the law.

 

[srw]

Once I've finished jury service I'll give Sussex Police a call. RJW lady said she was disappointed too but that her duty was to advise me on the law.

That does surprise me. It's the job of the police and the CPS to decide whether there's enough evidence of law-breaking to secure a conviction. It's the solicitors' job to secure compensation. The two are linked, but not the same.

 

[martint235]

That does surprise me. It's the job of the police and the CPS to decide whether there's enough evidence of law-breaking to secure a conviction. It's the solicitors' job to secure compensation. The two are linked, but not the same.

I agree. I think it extremely unlikely that Sussex Police will do anything not least because there is no independent evidence of who was driving the van (14 mates on a cycling trip don't make independent).

The solicitor feels that there is little point arguing against the insurance company as it is unlikely to result in a victory. Now they have two attitudes: we're doing work we're not getting paid for and if we lose we get nothing; if we win we get quite a bit of money compared to the work involved. It appears that the first attitude has become the favoured one. I don't think RJW would leave a case if they thought they could win it.

However all that said, there is a one way link between an insurance claim and a conviction: you can't get a conviction from an insurance claim but a conviction would bolster an insurance claim. So even if all Sussex Police have done is gone round and said "Look you were a naughty boy, don't do it again" that shows that the law believes there is an element of culpability.

I don't think that has happened but will see. I'm down a couple of hundred quid on a new crankset but other than that, unscathed. Live and learn.

 

[User482]

However all that said, there is a one way link between an insurance claim and a conviction: you can't get a conviction from an insurance claim but a conviction would bolster an insurance claim. So even if all Sussex Police have done is gone round and said "Look you were a naughty boy, don't do it again" that shows that the law believes there is an element of culpability.

That's all I really wanted. The Highway code (IIRC) is pretty clear about a) leaving plenty of room for cyclists and b) not using your horn aggressively. Despite 14 witnesses, it seems this is too much for the police.

I managed to get a pair of replacement wheels cheaply so I never bothered with the insurance thing.

 

[martint235]

To be fair to the police, there wasn't a single independent witness for them to deal with.

I don't know what the driver of the van looked like. I do know what the guy we spoke to at the house looked like but I can't say they are one and the same.

I do hope the police have a record of going to the van owner and saying "someone drove your van recklessly" but with no evidence I doubt such a record exists.

 

[dellzeqq]

he confirmed he was the driver of the van to me.

If you think RJW have let you (and us) down I can take it up with the CTC.

 

[User482]

To be fair to the police, there wasn't a single independent witness for them to deal with.

I don't know what the driver of the van looked like. I do know what the guy we spoke to at the house looked like but I can't say they are one and the same.

I do hope the police have a record of going to the van owner and saying "someone drove your van recklessly" but with no evidence I doubt such a record exists.

If they think that 14 people are all telling the same lie then they should be prosecuting us...

 

[martint235]

If they think that 14 people are all telling the same lie then they should be prosecuting us...

I really, really hope that British justice is better than that.

If I find myself in the dock, I would want the evidence against me to be more compelling than my word against the word of a group of mates. Particularly mates who had had a chance to compare stories..

I'm not suggesting that any of the people there would lie, just that justice must be guarded against that happening. Hence the requirement for at least one piece of independent evidence.

Now insurance is less strict, each side says their piece and if necessary a judge/magistrate decides which is more credible.

 

[dellzeqq]

I really, really hope that British justice is better than that.

If I find myself in the dock, I would want the evidence against me to be more compelling than my word against the word of a group of mates. Particularly mates who had had a chance to compare stories..

I'm not suggesting that any of the people there would lie, just that justice must be guarded against that happening. Hence the requirement for at least one piece of independent evidence.

Now insurance is less strict, each side says their piece and if necessary a judge/magistrate decides which is more credible.

it isn't so much insurance, it's about the likely result of a visit to the courts. The insurers are saying, in effect, that the case is so minor that it is unlikely that anybody would take it to the courts........RJW are saying, in effect, that they are not confident of winning if it went to the courts, or that it's just not big enough

 

[Wobblers]

Too bad, Martin. I was afraid that this would be the inevitable result.

It's a shame that the police don't take such things more seriously. But nothing will happen... right up to the point where they have to scrap some poor sod off the road as a result of this cretin. Which will be Too Late, by far

 

[User482]

I really, really hope that British justice is better than that.

If I find myself in the dock, I would want the evidence against me to be more compelling than my word against the word of a group of mates. Particularly mates who had had a chance to compare stories..

I'm not suggesting that any of the people there would lie, just that justice must be guarded against that happening. Hence the requirement for at least one piece of independent evidence.

Now insurance is less strict, each side says their piece and if necessary a judge/magistrate decides which is more credible.

I was being flippant, sorry.

But the point is that 14 (or15?) people have independently signed a legal document. I haven't seen what anyone else said but I should imagine it's pretty similar to my account. If that's not enough to at least have a stern word, and not enough to pursue an insurance claim I don't know what is.

 

[martint235]

I was being flippant, sorry.

But the point is that 14 (or15?) people have independently signed a legal document. I haven't seen what anyone else said but I should imagine it's pretty similar to my account. If that's not enough to at least have a stern word, and not enough to pursue an insurance claim I don't know what is.

I agree entirely that it should be enough for an insurance claim.

 

[dellzeqq]

Martin and Steve

you have e-mail