Froome and Wiggins TUEs

[smutchin]

The best analogy I can come up with is aggressive tax 'efficiency'.

It's a good analogy. Like tax efficiency, pushing the rules of sport to their limits is easier when you have lots of money to start with.

 

[oldroadman]

It's a good analogy. Like tax efficiency, pushing the rules of sport to their limits is easier when you have lots of money to start with.

Pushing the rules to the limit has always happened in all sports. This is how the extra talented apply themselves to becoming winners. The rest of us poor old also rans manage to scrape by, but that does not mean we also don't push things, just that the same ability is not present. Some are leaders, others are fated to a career in the servive of the extra talented. Domestique pay can be quite decent is you are dedicated to the job, and there's no pressure for personal results. Excellent!

 

[rich p]

Can we go back to focusing on Russia's state-sponsored doping program now?

The great thing about internet forums is that you can have lots of concurrent threads discussing a wide variety of subjects. And if the subject you're interested in isn't being discussed already, it's very easy to start a new thread.

I think Hont is just highlighting the fact the Fancy Bears are exposing these TUEs to deflect attention from their far, far greater sporting crimes which seem to have been successfully put on the back burner.

 

[smutchin]

I think Hont is just highlighting the fact the Fancy Bears are exposing these TUEs to deflect attention from their far, far greater sporting crimes which seem to have been successfully put on the back burner.

Why do you think they're on the back burner? Because they're not being reported in the Daily Mail? Because they're not being discussed in an internet forum?

 

[rich p]

Why do you think they're on the back burner? Because they're not being reported in the Daily Mail? Because they're not being discussed in an internet forum?

Possibly, that in the court of public opinion, nobody is talking about it but even non-cycling friends of mine are talking about Wiggins being a doper. The hoi polloi are headline readers.
It was actually Hont's post which I was trying to explain but I should probably have left it to him!

 

[Hont]

It was actually Hont's post which I was trying to explain but I should probably have left it to him!

But you did it really well. Thank you.

Fancy Bears are probably crying with laughter at the British media.

 

[Hont]

This whole saga has been horribly mismanaged by Sky, Wiggins, and BC...

Sky have consistently been very poor at PR. Remember when Froome's data was matched to that video and they immediately started a witch-hunt for hackers only to find it had been leaked. It made them look like bullies and incompetent all at the same time.

Setting yourself up as a super-clean whiter than white cycling team is nearly always going to bite you in the arse at some point. It's amazing that Sky are still so poor at this.

 

[Hont]

Given the general acceptance by Joe and Joanna Public that the success of British cycling has been built on pure corinthian foundations, anything that chips away at that image is going to get headlines.

Sure I understand the reasons. It's all how it's spun - the Government managed to put the blame on the tax avoiders without once accepting responsibility for not having better tax laws. Sky are getting blamed for complying with the rules of their sport, but if TUEs are being abused the rules need to be changed.

Sky not being the angels they claim to be is nothing new. Froome's corticosteroid use at Romandie was in spring 2014 and widely reported at the time.

 

[Slaav]

Wiggins obviously had knowledge of what happens when you miss a whereabouts as seen in comments about Deignan (as quoted by Smutch earlier). Is this missing a whereabouts a big issue? No, it's not. If anyone thinks it is, Cav has missed at least one - and has been open about that.

This whole saga has been horribly mismanaged by Sky, Wiggins, and BC. They should be speaking out more, and not a week later once the rumours and accusations have stuck.

Why there isn't a PR company who are dealing with this I dont know, as all 3 parties really need some help. If only Wiggins was signed up to a very exclusive agency which had managed sports stars going through personality crises...

I think the issue is a simple one. Wiggins could easily have criticised Lizzie and ADDED he should know as it happened to him.... But that then feeds the trolls whilst the knowledgeable nod sagely that he does have a point??

When his comments are read in full and now looked at with hindsight, then it is clear that his comments have MORE credibility, not less - which is the whole angle of the DM story (and even some on here and other sites.) why (especially) the DM always pick the -ve spin on these stories baffles me!

The INFREQUENCY of Wiggos missed tests shows how well he understood and worked WITH the system, not against it! With his profile and success, my guess is he was tested quite a lot and very often. To only miss a few tests in his career and never (it seems) missed a second, shows why his comments on Lizzie are fair and valid? Not the other way around surely?

Anyway, haters (Inc DM readers) will always hate....

The rules need tweaking, so let's not hang people for working WITHIN the scope of the current rules???

 

[SWSteve]

I think the issue is a simple one. Wiggins could easily have criticised Lizzie and ADDED he should know as it happened to him.... But that then feeds the trolls whilst the knowledgeable nod sagely that he does have a point??

When his comments are read in full and now looked at with hindsight, then it is clear that his comments have MORE credibility, not less - which is the whole angle of the DM story (and even some on here and other sites.) why (especially) the DM always pick the -ve spin on these stories baffles me!

The INFREQUENCY of Wiggos missed tests shows how well he understood and worked WITH the system, not against it! With his profile and success, my guess is he was tested quite a lot and very often. To only miss a few tests in his career and never (it seems) missed a second, shows why his comments on Lizzie are fair and valid? Not the other way around surely?

Anyway, haters (Inc DM readers) will always hate....

The rules need tweaking, so let's not hang people for working WITHIN the scope of the current rules???

I also think it was a chance for him to state he had missed a test, and now knows the process and works to ensure it solid to happen again within a 13 month period.

What I don't like is how his ridiculous PR agency who are earning him buckets of money through appearances and brand ambassador work, seem to have forgotten if people think he's a cheat - his home market won't be so appreciative.

 

[oldroadman]

It's been said before, at the top level you work right to the limit of the rules. Which Sky have never denied they do. If the TUE system is broken then WADA and UCI should sort it out, that's their job. I do agree though that Fancy Bears have done a masterly PR job of diverting attention from the Russian issue - real quality diversionary propaganda. Could almost have been done by a dirty tricks department of a secret service...oh, hold on...

 

[smutchin]

If the TUE system is broken then WADA and UCI should sort it out, that's their job.

Agreed. And hopefully that is what is going on behind the scenes.

I do agree though that Fancy Bears have done a masterly PR job of diverting attention from the Russian issue - real quality diversionary propaganda. Could almost have been done by a dirty tricks department of a secret service...oh, hold on...

Tbh, I don't think it really matters. It's normal for British cycling fans to be interested in whether or not their great hero is a doper, but I don't think any of this is going to do any real damage to Wiggo's reputation in the long run - bearing in mind how many people still believe in Lance.

And again, with regard to the Russian doping program, it's what's going on behind the scenes at WADA and the UCI that really matters, not whether it is reported in the Daily Mail or being discussed in internet forums - which is what I was getting at in my response to @Hont's post. In the court of public opinion, the Russians are already Public Enemy No.1 anyway.

And I don't think anyone has suggested that anything Wiggins has done is as bad as what the Russians are up to. Wiggins and Froome's TUEs are still a valid topic for discussion even if there are more disreputable things going on in the sport.

 

[Pro Tour Punditry]

This made I larf

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Froome's sinking the knife ever deeper, he really doesn't like him does he?

However much he dislikes Wiggins, it's hard to disagree with anything he says about Wiggins. However he is simulataneously justifying his own already controversial TUE...

 

[Supersuperleeds]

Didn't Froome come second the year Wiggo won the TDF