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theclaud

Openly Marxist
Location
Swansea
I just Googled for images of L deterrimus and got this http://www.google.co...biw=789&bih=395

They all look pretty different to me and yet claim to be the same thing. How does one sort all this out?? :sad: :sad:

This is why you should never trust anyone to ID a mushroom from a photo. There's a lot of variation, and the ability to tell what something is at a glance only comes after you've done the more careful checking and seen a few different specimens. The good news is that most of the distinctions you need to understand are quite unambiguous - for example, whether a mushroom has gills or pores on the underside of the cap (there are almost no very poisonous mushrooms with pores, and lots of good edibles in that category). The way to do it is to compare systematically against a description in a decent field guide - Roger's is the best in my experience. So choose a mature mushroom rather than an emerging buttony one and note the size of your mushroom across the cap and the shape of the cap, the colour, the texture (some mushrooms are slimy, some sticky, some velvety etc) and the habitat in which it is growing - both the species I've been going on about occur under or near spruce or pines. If you look at a Lactarius from above you can usually see a subtle but distinctive pattern of concentric rings - with both species you're after these are likely to be greenish - with deterrimus they might have a winey tinge. Cut a specimen through the stem at the base and note any change of colour, and whether the stem is hollow, solid, tough, spongy etc - Lactarius are likely to be spongy and hollowing near the base and you'll see a ring of colour where you've cut. Some mushrooms (though not these) have distinctive underground features, so you need to dig up a specimen to check. Cut right through the cap and stem from top to bottom so you've got two symmetrical halves, and again note change of colour - in those Google images you'll note that the carrot-coloured line running from above the gills down the stem is quite obvious. Break a bit off the cap and squash some of the gills - Lactarius is on the brittle side and will ooze latex where it's broken, and deterrimus discolours gradually with the deepening winey colour to the point that it looks fairly messy if you've got a few in a basket getting knocked about. Have a sniff! Some mushrooms smell of apricots, aniseed, toasted almonds, flour - although in fairness a lot of them are just mushroomy. Positive ID is a satisfying thing - you get a hunch then the detail chimes in feature by feature and you feel terribly pleased with yourself, even if it's something you can't eat. IDing poisonous ones is reassuring as well.
 

02GF74

Über Member
Don't f*** about with mushrooms unless you know exactly waht you are doing.



You cannot tell by eating them which ones are posionous or not .... but by the time you have found out, assuming you are still alive, you can get kidney and or liver failure.



The usual edibility tests (read the SAS survival book) do not apply to fungi.
 

theclaud

Openly Marxist
Location
Swansea
Don't f*** about with mushrooms unless you know exactly waht you are doing.

You cannot tell by eating them which ones are posionous or not .... but by the time you have found out, assuming you are still alive, you can get kidney and or liver failure.

The usual edibility tests (read the SAS survival book) do not apply to fungi.

I think we all agree on that, but there's no need to get hysterical about perfectly understandable risks. It's possible to learn about identifying mushrooms, and there is a great deal of pleasure and satisfaction to be had from collecting them. If you approach mushrooms with the necessary circumspection, there's as little chance of mistaking a Death Cap for tasty Cep as there is a sensible blackberry-picker making a pie out of Deadly Nightshade.

I found some Shaggy ink Caps on my way to work this morning, and I think it's a shame if people are put off the possibility of enjoying such simple prizes.

My words of caution would be as follows:

Respect the dangers of mushrooms, and savour and indulge the fear, for it will prevent you taking risks. Read obsessively about Death Caps and what they do to you, and study the cases of people who have died. Most cases of serious poisoning involve people who thought that the worst that could happen if they got it wrong would be a bit of a stomach upset, so they didn't really look or think. There is no antidote to the toxins in the most poisonous mushrooms, and the death they bring is slow, agonising and cruel. Death Caps even have a nasty habit of allowing a lull in the symptoms, so that you think you've recovered shortly before you die. *Shudder*. That's not just for effect - I find it hard to suppress a shudder when I recognise one of the deadly Amanitas, even though they can be breathtakingly beautiful:

15.jpg


There are no rules of thumb - ignore anyone who tells you that you can tell whether a mushroom is edible if you can peel it, if it doesn't have white gills, or any other such nonsense. It is all bilge. Whilst good folk knowledge is better than bad science, old wives' tales can kill you. When identifying a mushroom you hope to eat, you must first eliminate all possibilty that it is deadly poisonous, and then identify it positively. In order to know what something is, you must also know what it most certainly isn't. If you cannot do that, don't eat it.

Get a good field guide, and double-check your IDs with another source. Practice your skills on mushrooms you have no intention of eating, and familiarise yourself with their morphology. For eating, target easy, distinctive species first where there is low risk of confusion. Luckily there are lots of these, and plenty of them are very good to eat. Here are a few:

53905151.jpg


laetiporus-sulphureus-xxx850.jpg


BoletusEdulis.jpg


Sparassis_crispa1.jpg


:tongue:
 

theclaud

Openly Marxist
Location
Swansea
Oh, and by the way, it's "Cly-tossy-bee". First syllable rhymes with "fly", second, stressed, with "bossy".

I don't buy that - it's ridiculous, and doesn't tie in with the parallel forms like Inocybe and Psilocybe. I reckon they're just embarrassed at pronouncing the "clit" bit. Something similar happened with the word "Uranus", didn't it?
 
I don't buy that - it's ridiculous, and doesn't tie in with the parallel forms like Inocybe and Psilocybe. I reckon they're just embarrassed at pronouncing the "clit" bit. Something similar happened with the word "Uranus", didn't it?
You're right about Uranus, if you watch any of the very early Sky at Nights you can catch Patrick Moore quite distinctly saying "Your anus". Perhaps the BBC guys had a quiet word in his ear - for years now it's been UR-anus. :biggrin:

See also here, 4th paragraph down...
 

theclaud

Openly Marxist
Location
Swansea
You're right about Uranus, if you watch any of the very early Sky at Nights you can catch Patrick Moore quite distinctly saying "Your anus". Perhaps the BBC guys had a quiet word in his ear - for years now it's been UR-anus. :biggrin:

See also here, 4th paragraph down...

Ha! I'm not going to say "Cly-tossy-bee" on anyone's authority. If you can say Phallus impudicus with a straight face, Clitocybe ought to be a walk in the park. The stuff about Lepista is interesting, though.

Your opinion on one of this morning's finds, Pete! I reckon on a Boletus aereus, but I'm open to persuasion. There was only the one, so I didn't collect it. Both the Deceivers nearby, too, and a Russula? that I haven't a clue about. Plus a Brown Birch Bolete - better to look at than to eat, if you ask me...

Boletus aereus.jpg

Laccaria laccata.jpg

Laccaria amethystea.jpg

Russula sp..jpg

Leccinum scabrum.jpg
 

summerdays

Cycling in the sun
Location
Bristol
Where is the best sort of places to go looking for mushrooms not intending to eat them (don't feel I would be able to identify them currently) ... just to see them and photograph them.
 

theclaud

Openly Marxist
Location
Swansea
Where is the best sort of places to go looking for mushrooms not intending to eat them (don't feel I would be able to identify them currently) ... just to see them and photograph them.

That's the spirit! Different ones like different habitats, but a few good places to look would be heathland with birches and pines for the boletes, open pasture for most of the field mushroom types and giant puffballs, clifftops and brackeny heath for parasols, established woodland with lots of native trees for all kinds of things, and parks under trees - particularly oak, birch, spruce and pine. Lots of mushrooms will only grow with a particular tree, and others are more tarty or don't need trees at all. Dead wood in the autumn and (for Oyster Mushrooms) through the winter, and don't forget to look above you for the bracket types - Chicken of the Woods and Beefsteak Fungus are often high up. You often get good results in surprisingly dull terrain - the edges of golf courses, domestic lawns, municipal lawns and flower beds and suchlike. I found Field Blewits in the middle of Swansea City Centre once, Black Morels in my mother's border, and an enormous Shaggy Parasol at South Kensington Station.
 
Ha! I'm not going to say "Cly-tossy-bee" on anyone's authority. If you can say Phallus impudicus with a straight face, Clitocybe ought to be a walk in the park. The stuff about Lepista is interesting, though.
I'd love to be the fly-on-the-wall, when you're taking a gang of adolescent teen girls out on a 'foray', and you come across the first C. nebularis :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:. Never mind!

Your opinion on one of this morning's finds, Pete! I reckon on a Boletus aereus, but I'm open to persuasion. There was only the one, so I didn't collect it. Both the Deceivers nearby, too, and a Russula? that I haven't a clue about. Plus a Brown Birch Bolete - better to look at than to eat, if you ask me...
Very nice piccies! B. aereus? Maybe, yes I checked on Rogers', but on that photo I'd probably go for a rather stout B. badius first! I presume you cut it to see if the flesh turns blue (badius does, aereus doesn't). I have picked an aereus, years ago, in the grounds of Worth Abbey near Crawley I think it was, I did my best at IDing it and then it went in the pot with a lot of other stuff. Can't say anything about the taste. I can't help with your Russula I'm afraid: if I see a non-obvious Russula I just say "Russula" and leave it at that! I disagree with you about the Brown Birch Bolete, we think it's very tasty especially in a soup and we look out for firm young specimens. You need quite a lot to make a meal, but they're very common round these parts. Usually we discard the tough stalk and trim off the tubes if they're dirty. The mushroom is usually maggot-free, too, which can't be said of ceps... :sad:

Which brings me on to the general topic of mushrooming - stop me if I get carried away! :blush: Of course you'll know this, but not everyone will, it's all b*ll*cks about mushrooms falling neatly into two categories: 'edible' and 'poisonous'. 99% of all the mushrooms out there fall into the third category: 'harmless but worthless'. You wouldn't eat acorns or horse-chestnuts, would you? Nor for that matter, grass? They won't kill you, but you won't want to eat them. Same is true of most mushrooms. Most of them I've never learnt to identify properly, but it doesn't matter because I know they're not worth it.

However you simply can't play a 'try it and see' game with mushrooms! The really poisonous ones are killers, as Claud said. Best is to learn a few good 'uns really thoroughly and stick to those. I probably have about a dozen types which I pick regularly, not more than that.

The really big enemy of the mushroom picker is, of course, the ubiquitous maggot (a tiny variety, only about 1mm long, but they do a hell of a lot of damage, especially in ceps). Some people are less squeamish than others and eat the lot. We, I admit, cut out all the wormy bits. It's sad to see a firm young cep or parasol consigned to the compost, but there it is...

And as regards how much to pick? A highly controversial topic that, in some parts of the country (e.g. Wimbledon Common, Epping Forest) picking has been banned or strictly controlled. Personally we stick to the 'enough for our needs' principle, though if you find a lot of nice ceps it's very tempting to bag an extra kilo or so! They can be tossed in butter for a few minutes, then cooled and go in the freezer, later thaw out and finish the frying (don't freeze mushrooms raw). I don't get particularly bothered about other mushroom-pickers I see around the woods, so long as I think they're picking for themselves. What I have no time for, are the 'professionals' doing it for the supermarkets or the restaurant trade: not if they're cleaning out a publicly-accessible area. No time, in fact, for such as this woman for example! Maybe it's fair game, but she's spoiling the catch for hundreds of other innocent mushroomers. Trust the DM for playing the 'poor innocent creature' line, they haven't printed the half of the story! Like, she runs her own business selling wild mushrooms by the hundreds of kilos, to the restaurant trade, and at a tidy profit too. No: if I were to meet her in the woods, I'd be sorely tempted to slip a suitably-disguised Russula emetica or Lactarius torminosus in her basket! :evil:
 

theclaud

Openly Marxist
Location
Swansea
I'd love to be the fly-on-the-wall, when you're taking a gang of adolescent teen girls out on a 'foray', and you come across the first C. nebularis :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:. Never mind!

Very nice piccies! B. aereus? Maybe, yes I checked on Rogers', but on that photo I'd probably go for a rather stout B. badius first! I presume you cut it to see if the flesh turns blue (badius does, aereus doesn't). I have picked an aereus, years ago, in the grounds of Worth Abbey near Crawley I think it was, I did my best at IDing it and then it went in the pot with a lot of other stuff. Can't say anything about the taste. I can't help with your Russula I'm afraid: if I see a non-obvious Russula I just say "Russula" and leave it at that! I disagree with you about the Brown Birch Bolete, we think it's very tasty especially in a soup and we look out for firm young specimens. You need quite a lot to make a meal, but they're very common round these parts. Usually we discard the tough stalk and trim off the tubes if they're dirty. The mushroom is usually maggot-free, too, which can't be said of ceps... :sad:

It's not a Bay - I didn't cut it this time but I ate one from the same place a couple of years back. As you note, it's a pleasingly sturdy, stout, mushroom with a firm, creamy texture - closest to a Cep but not quite as exciting in flavour or scent. It's also not at all viscid when wet - it retains a rather nice velvetiness. Very worthwhile eating. I'm sort of 90% sure about aereus but I've only ever found it in the one place, and always only a few small specimens so I've not much to compare - the one in the pic is a young one about 2" high. It was under oak. Here's Roger's pic for colour comparison - they call it a Bronze Cep in some places:

CCFEC89142A24FE3B6F7690CDB0C5C27.jpg


I might give the Brown Birch another go then, as there are loads of them round here. I think last time I tried them I left the tubes on, and it was the texture I didn't like. Mind you, some people are apparently a bit sensitive to Leccinum, so you can't risk feeding it to delicate types.
 
Yep, on L. scabrum if the tubes are really squidgy I push them right off with the thumb, if they're reasonably sound I might trim them to half thickness with a sharp knife. Try experimenting! For the Bay too I usually take off the tubes, they're rather soft and mushy. But not on the cep! There I leave on as much of the tubes as I dare, I think they hold a lot of the flavour!

Other Boletes I seek out ... The Orange Birch (L. versipelle: though that's a real pain with maggots!), B. impolitus (rare according to Philips but I see quite a lot around here), Suillus grevillei (surprising, most folks chuck it but I think it's quite tasty and not all that slimy), Suillus variegatus (not seen any for a while), those are the main ones. Those I leave: B. chrysenteron (ugh!), S. luteus (too slimy!), S. bovinus, B. erythropus (I used to eat it but Mrs P read in Philips, 'may cause gastric upsets' so that's enough for her, now verboten, pity, I thought it was quite tasty... :sad:), B. luridus (definitely a no-eaty!), Tylopilus felleus (ditto :ohmy: ). Plus there are of course some rarer ones...

Does my list match yours? :smile:
 

theclaud

Openly Marxist
Location
Swansea
Yep, on L. scabrum if the tubes are really squidgy I push them right off with the thumb, if they're reasonably sound I might trim them to half thickness with a sharp knife. Try experimenting! For the Bay too I usually take off the tubes, they're rather soft and mushy. But not on the cep! There I leave on as much of the tubes as I dare, I think they hold a lot of the flavour!

Other Boletes I seek out ... The Orange Birch (L. versipelle: though that's a real pain with maggots!), B. impolitus (rare according to Philips but I see quite a lot around here), Suillus grevillei (surprising, most folks chuck it but I think it's quite tasty and not all that slimy), Suillus variegatus (not seen any for a while), those are the main ones. Those I leave: B. chrysenteron (ugh!), S. luteus (too slimy!), S. bovinus, B. erythropus (I used to eat it but Mrs P read in Philips, 'may cause gastric upsets' so that's enough for her, now verboten, pity, I thought it was quite tasty... :sad:), B. luridus (definitely a no-eaty!), Tylopilus felleus (ditto :ohmy: ). Plus there are of course some rarer ones...

Does my list match yours? :smile:

I don't do Suillus, which I count among the most unpleasant things I have ever eaten, but other than that I'm in broad agreement. Not found a lot of Orange Birch though. B. aestivalis is reputed to be good, as is B. pinicola, but I've not come across either.
 

GaryA

Subversive Sage
Location
High Shields
Great thread...even though its left me feeling a bit inadequate. Ive dabbled in fungi a little but caution has always won over enthuaism..charcoal burners being one of the few I'm prepared to eat, but not the tastiest. Must try harder!

no thread on fungi is complete without mentioning this amazing book;

Mycelium running

cool title :becool:
 

theclaud

Openly Marxist
Location
Swansea
Great thread...even though its left me feeling a bit inadequate. Ive dabbled in fungi a little but caution has always won over enthuaism..charcoal burners being one of the few I'm prepared to eat, but not the tastiest. Must try harder!

no thread on fungi is complete without mentioning this amazing book;

Mycelium running

cool title :becool:

Tis a cool title, but the link goes, er, elsewhere... ;)
 
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