Get some f*****g lights!!!!

[asterix]

I'm still driving to work as a result of me being knocked off the bike back in September, resulting in an injured knee,

Sorry to hear it, what happened?

Er, Lee, are you suggesting that it is sensible not to have decent lights, wear reasonably visible clothing etc.?

Isn't it a little unfair suggesting that the poster has a view that he did not express?

Although I criticised the OP I do not hold a brief for unlit cyclists, either. (My winter steed has a hub dynamo plus led's).

My view is that motor vehicles should not claim the right to proceed at ever-increasing speeds regardless of conditions and that everyone else owes their users a duty to get out of their way. There is of course a balance that can be reached but perhaps we are moving/have moved beyond it in favour of drivers?

 

[SquareDaff]

Cheers - had visions of having to go routing through the loft to find the helmet that matches the peak I've found!!

 

[downfader]

[QUOTE 1262513"]
How are the Aussies idiots? Surely it's upto them what they do in their own country and what laws they pass?
[/quote]


Yes it is up to Aus to decide. However many of their officials out there now realise they opened Pandora's Box and raised the head injury rate, as well as the other negative effects (well publicised many times before)

 

[Debian]

Can understand the OP's POV but pedestrians don't have lights and in fog I would and do drive at a speed decided with that in mind.

I was driving with that very much in mind. The first incident happened as I was waiting to pull out from a side road, I simply could not see the unlit and ninja-dressed cyclist in the dark and fog.

It's always tempting to blast the horn when annoyed, but it is a) illegal and b) driving should not put you into such a frame of mind. After all, in a collision with a cyclist you would walk away unscathed in all probability; they might be killed.

And if no-one does anything to attract such idiot cyclists attention then they will carry on their merry way regardless. I was not "in a frame of mind", rather I was trying to give the cyclist a hint.

Don't forget, I am, by choice, a cyclist rather than a motorist and I'm fully aware of the situations.

I maintain my view that any cyclist not displaying decent lights + reflectors and not wearing hi-vis kit in current conditions is a class-A moron, no two ways about it.

 

[Norm]

And if no-one does anything to attract such idiot cyclists attention then they will carry on their merry way regardless. I was not "in a frame of mind", rather I was trying to give the cyclist a hint.

Don't forget, I am, by choice, a cyclist rather than a motorist and I'm fully aware of the situations.

I maintain my view that any cyclist not displaying decent lights + reflectors and not wearing hi-vis kit in current conditions is a class-A moron, no two ways about it.

My concern with this, Deb, is that the person that you tooted has no idea that you are a cyclist. My guess is that he'll just mark you down as another impatient motorist who blew his horn for no reason when he was having enough issues already dealing with the weather.

We need to think about how any messages we wish to pass will be received. When we "teach someone a lesson", the pupil's understanding is very often different to the teacher's.

That said, of course, anyone who rides without lights in dodgy conditions has very little imagination, as well as being very selfish.

IMO.

 

[ACW]

Deb i fully agree with you, if you want to take a risk and potentially kill yourself then do it in a way that won’t affect anyone else.

 

[Origamist]

I maintain my view that any cyclist not displaying decent lights + reflectors and not wearing hi-vis kit in current conditions is a class-A moron, no two ways about it.

As someone who meets your "class-A moron" criteria, or maybe just class-C (for failing to wear "hi-vis kit") I was wondering what, if any, additional conspicuity measures you have taken in the "current conditions"? I'm guessing (as you seem very keen on visibility aids) that you've sprayed your car yellow and have deployed retro-reflective markings on your car's exterior in order to make your vehicle stand out more?

 

[cd365]

Yes it is up to Aus to decide. However many of their officials out there now realise they opened Pandora's Box and raised the head injury rate, as well as the other negative effects (well publicised many times before)

Is there any stats to prove that compulsory wearing of helmets in Aus has raised the head injury rate; I would like to read that.

 

[gaz]

I was driving with that very much in mind. The first incident happened as I was waiting to pull out from a side road, I simply could not see the unlit and ninja-dressed cyclist in the dark and fog.



And if no-one does anything to attract such idiot cyclists attention then they will carry on their merry way regardless. I was not "in a frame of mind", rather I was trying to give the cyclist a hint.

Don't forget, I am, by choice, a cyclist rather than a motorist and I'm fully aware of the situations.

I maintain my view that any cyclist not displaying decent lights + reflectors and not wearing hi-vis kit in current conditions is a class-A moron, no two ways about it.

So if a driver doesn't like the way you are cycling or he doesn't like your lights, then it's ok for him to blast his horn as he passes you? What reaction would you give if a driver did so to you?

I'd be thinking 'eff off'. Your horn should be used as a warning, not as a comunicative tool which no one else will understand.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

It seems obvious to me that some people just will not take any criticism from someone who admits to driving.

So take it from me, someone who doesn't drive, has never driven, and does not intend to, and who cycles all year whatever the weather, cyclists who make no effort to make themselves visible in the dark and in adverse weather conditions are being unecessarily foolish.

I've had numerous people I know where I live, who drive, thank me for having the high-viz backpack cover I use on - it is, by all accounts, far more effective than any number of back lights, especially on unlit roads. I honestly cannot see the argument for being more invisible in these situations.

And there's no point in indulging in 'whataboutery' (whether you're talking about what peds or drivers should do to make themselves visible), we're talking about cyclists.

And cyclists who ride invisibly frequently put me, as another cyclist, at risk, not just themselves. In North America it's even worse because a good proportion of these particular morons tend to ride on the wrong side of the street... oh yes they do.

 

[adscrim]

It seems obvious to me that some people just will not take any criticism from someone who admits to driving.

Is it not more to do with the horn use? Most of us will know the feeling of a car blasting it's horn and scaring you half to death. I don't think people wish to condone riding without lights in conditions that need them, but it's the hypocrisy of highlighting someone's anti-social road use through some anti-social road use.

I believe there wouldn't be a problem if a window had been opened and some quiet word had been had instead.

"Fecking idiot tosspots!!! Get some lights Don't blast you're horn at me while I'm struggling to get up this hill you twatting, unthinking, selfish, idiotic balls of lard!!! "

 

[BentMikey]

I've had numerous people I know where I live, who drive, thank me for having the high-viz backpack cover I use on - it is, by all accounts, far more effective than any number of back lights, especially on unlit roads. I honestly cannot see the argument for being more invisible in these situations.

Ahaahaaahaaaahaahahahaha! Yeah right, sure. You're probably used to only some primitive LED lights from the dawn of the era.

There are many modern LED lights, even relative cheapies, that will far FAR exceed any possible impact of a hiviz cover, both the fluorescent and reflective parts, both in the day and at night.

 

[Origamist]

It seems obvious to me that some people just will not take any criticism from someone who admits to driving.

I'm happy to take constructive criticism from any quarter (including drivers), but am less keen to be likened to a moron for failing to meet a highly subjective Hi-Vis threshold. As it happens, I'm sad enough to get Ms O to check how I look from a car when she's driving at night.

So take it from me, someone who doesn't drive, has never driven, and does not intend to, and who cycles all year whatever the weather, cyclists who make no effort to make themselves visible in the dark and in adverse weather conditions are being unecessarily foolish.

Agreed.

I've had numerous people I know where I live, who drive, thank me for having the high-viz backpack cover I use on - it is, by all accounts, far more effective than any number of back lights, especially on unlit roads. I honestly cannot see the argument for being more invisible in these situations.

I'm not sure how people can be "more invisible" - but I think I know what you mean (less visible). The difficulties begin when you ask people what levels of both conspicuity and perspicuity are reasonable for cyclists. What is deemed acceptable or a minimum standard seem to vary considerably. Like you, I have been congratulated by motorists, motorcyclists, and cyclists on an almost weekly basis for my visibility efforts (rear lights in my case), but never for wearing a retro-reflective Sam Browne belt. What, if anything, does that tell us?

And there's no point in indulging in 'whataboutery' (whether you're talking about what peds or drivers should do to make themselves visible), we're talking about cyclists.

I don't mind a bit of 'whataboutery' here as we all have to share the road and have a responsibility for one another. Focussing solely on cyclists is understandable (this is a cycling forum), but a failure to examine the bigger transport picture is unwise, IMO. That said, my comments were something of a cheap shot at the OP.

 

[Alien8]

I've had numerous people I know where I live, who drive, thank me for having the high-viz backpack cover I use on - it is, by all accounts, far more effective than any number of back lights, especially on unlit roads.

This is obviously something that you and Debs have in common - he quite easily gets the hump as well.

[A link for those who fail to see the cunning play on words]

 

[Fletch456]

I don't mind a bit of 'whataboutery' here as we all have to share the road and have a responsibility for one another. Focussing solely on cyclists is understandable (this is a cycling forum), but a failure to examine the bigger transport picture is unwise, IMO. That said, my comments were something of a cheap shot at the OP.

Agreed. For me that would mean fines for car drivers for improper use of or not using one's lights. The number of cars I saw without lights on, or using sidelights, which were as good as useless in my short walk to the station this morning was impressive.

It would for me, go for fog lights, when there isn't any fog - which many of today's young 'uns seem to like (hate it when they are shining in my rear view mirror), hazards when parked in a row so it looks like you're pulling out when you're not plus using headlights when it's a damn sight more useful. People so often do view driving as a right and a privilege.

Mis-use of lights such as fog lights has been a fineable offence for a long time but I imagine it is very very rarely enforced.