Hard Impact; Where does fault lie?

[PK99]

I am sorry but I must be being a bit thick here, where do you see the cyclist before the impact?

That's the point... You have a clear view of the cycle lane where it passes the car in front until the turning car enters the box, ie the cyclist is still behind that point when the car enters.

 

[PK99]

He could be at any point up to the limit of the camera's field of view.

check out the video again - at the point the front wheel enter the box there is a clear view of the back of the mini - the bike has not yet passed that point.

 

[CopperBrompton]

Also, it is box junction, the gap is expected

That's kind of the point here: box junctions indicate the likelihood of traffic turning right across them. As many others have pointed out, the blame for the collision is with the driver, but this was an avoidable collision on the part of the cyclist. Defensive riding and driving is the skill of staying out of other people's accidents; personally, I think it's a useful skill.

There will be exceptions, such as the motorcycle video posted where there was no way at all to anticipate what would happen, but this one was a predictable risk.

 

[Nortones2]

As above. The cyclist has a part to play in saving his own skin. IF going too fast to stop, contributory negligence is relevant. That doesn't make it 50:50. As ever, there are several factors involved which an impartial investigator might weigh up. Should there be such a creature

 

[PK99]

If your only activity in life is to try and anticipate cockwomblery in others, you're not going to do very much. You'll never pass those traffic lights t green, because it's just possible that a truck driver will RLJ. You'll not drive onto that roundabout because that motorist on the next exit might not stop. You won't walk across that zebra crossing, because that car might not stop. A bus might mount the pavement, so let's not walk to the shops. In fact, let's not use the car, the mechanic might have botched servicing the brakes...

When approaching green lights and a car is approaching their red at speed - approach at a moderate speed and make a judgment call.
Ditto entering a roundabout.
Don't step out onto a crossing in front of moving traffic, claim priority and wait for the cars to stop

 

[Wobblers]

Stop motion on the video. The car wheels enter the box and the video shows the cyclist has not yet passed the rear of the car at the front of the queue.

That's not what I see. The back of the stopped car is out of the field of view before the other car moves into the box. It is not possible to tell where the cyclist is at all from the video.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

[QUOTE 3016560, member: 9609"]It is a question I would love to know the answer too; How many accidents involving two vehicles (bikes, cars, vans, lorries) could have been completely avoided had the person who was not technically to blame had been a better and more observant driver/rider?[/QUOTE]
It is a question I would love to know the answer too; How many accidents involving two vehicles (bikes, cars, vans, lorries) could have been completely avoided had the person who was not technically to blame had been a slower or faster driver/rider?

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Even better, stay in bed.

I can't stay upright on my turbo when I put it on the bed.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

15% off accidents in the home, in the over 50's, are falls from the bed. ROSPA

What percentage involve cyclists on turbo's that's what I want to know....

...I just wanna be safe, will no one think of the kiddies?

 

[classic33]

What percentage involve cyclists on turbo's that's what I want to know....

...I just wanna be safe, will no one think of the kiddies?

How many are going to own up to taking their bikes to bed though!

 

[GrumpyGregry]

It is a fair bet that, with a few exceptions, the vast majority of folks in CC drive cars.

The vast majority of these are 'cyclists who drive.'

The minority are 'drivers who cycle.'

Within that minority there is clearly a further sub-set...

'Nobber-drivers who cycle.'

If the cap fits...

 

[Nigel-YZ1]

This must be how the Spanish Inquisition started. Or was that a helmet debate?...

 

[Wobblers]

When approaching green lights and a car is approaching their red at speed - approach at a moderate speed and make a judgment call.
Ditto entering a roundabout.
Don't step out onto a crossing in front of moving traffic, claim priority and wait for the cars to stop

What is moderate speed?

How do you know that the car waiting at the roundabout isn't suddenly going to pull out just when you get there? You don't - so how's any sort of judgement call going to help? It certainly won't stop you going into the side of the car, will it?

Your judgement call is about assessing risks. How high a risk is too high? If you see a car approach that roundabout at 60, you know there's a very high risk of collision, so you slow or stop. But there's also the risk that the motorist will stop, then pull out just as you pass his entrance to the roundabout. From experience, you know that doesn't very often, so your judgement call would be to proceed, yes? The important point is, your judgement excludes low probability incidents, exactly because they have a low probability of happening. Yet, occasionally, they do - and it is impossible to foresee them all. It is impossible to adapt your behaviour to reduce the consequences of all possible incidents. Which means that the rational response is to adapt your behaviour to counter the most likely incidents.

Yes, we can certainly say that the cyclist could have done things differently. It's easy to be wise after the event. Filtering on the outside, as the motorcyclist did, would most likely have meant that the collision wouldn't have taken place. But note that filtering on the outside increases the probability of a collision with a car pulling out of that side road! And of course the presence of the cycle lane discourages offside filtering. It must also to be pointed that, since this is a busy cycle lane, the presence of cyclists in that position was something that readily could - and should - have been anticipated by the motorist.

 

[benb]

Just because the cyclist could possibly have avoided this, doesn't make it any less than 100% the fault of the driver for proceeding when it wasn't safe to do so.

 

[vickster]

Given in the letter of the law the car was at fault, did the cyclist engage legal advice, challenge the insurance company decision and proceed to settle. Was the cyclist hurt, the bike damaged? If the fault was with the cyclist according to insurance did they go after the cyclist for damage to the car, injury to the driver? Be nice to know after 7 pages of discussion!?
This is where British cycling membership comes in handy.