Health & Safety gone ... just gone

[Smokin Joe]

On the other hand when I started my apprenticeship in 1968 as a blacksmith no one told us that the level of noise in the shop could damage your ears, no one cared in the “good old days” I'm now deaf in one ear and the other one is not much better.

The same year I started mine as a mechanical engineer. Guards were put on the machines when the safety inspector was due round and removed afterwards because the slowed things down.

 

[Alex H]

Tongue in cheek aside, it's the background stuff that it effects most, for instance ( I cant remember the exact figures) a Vulcan required something lie 80 hours maintenance for every hour flying, a lot of that I suspect was checks, checks, checks, everything done by the letter and accounted for. Dad said a civilian aircraft wouldnt get that level of care, the companies would go bust pdq.

Military aircraft are slightly considerably more stressed than civilian ones. I think the high amount of maintenance hours comes from Minor and Major servicing, which basically means a fairly comprehensive strip / rebuild at a specialist maintenance unit such as RAF St Athan.

 

[snorri]

When I was a copper we were banned from placing any items atop our lockers. They might fall off and land on someone's head, you see. Quite by what mechanism they would suddenly fall off was never explained.

Anyway, one Bobby checked with the local HSE people and since records began there had been no incidents reported to them of any person being injured by any item leaping off the top of lockers.

Gravity.
Stuff on top of lockers is a symptom of poor housekeeping which can lead to accidents. Why would stuff be stored on top of lockers? Insufficient safe storage places? Laziness to dispose of surplus or waste items?
Regarding the no incidents reported, no sensible person would report an incident which might make them look stupid at an accident investigation.

 

[cyberknight]

When I was a copper we were banned from placing any items atop our lockers. They might fall off and land on someone's head, you see. Quite by what mechanism they would suddenly fall off was never explained.

Anyway, one Bobby checked with the local HSE people and since records began there had been no incidents reported to them of any person being injured by any item leaping off the top of lockers.

Another one. Chap I know worked for Northampton Borough Carncil on their street lighting. The carncil went through a brief phase of only fitting lamp posts that hinged at the bottom because climbing the special ladder or using a cherry picker to chage bulbs is dangerous. So dangerous in fact, there had been zero such incidents since the department was formed in the early 50's. That they cost twice as much as regular lamp posts, and they were dangerous themselves because the mechanisms were vulnerable to tampering and kids were dropping them down and fannying about with them, didn't seem to register with the H&S penpushers - for them it was important that staff were protected from accidents that had never come close to happening. They lasted about a year in their job before being removed.

The problem with this sort of rubbish is that it detracts from the safety message when a genuine issue needs addressing.

guy i know was a safety man for a cherry picker, stopped in front of it hidden from operator who ran him over breaking every bone in his foot near enough and had to have a toe amputated

 

[postman]

Might get my eye taken out by one of those.

Hello hello,sorry i a not used to using this thing called a telephone.I wish to make a claim for loss of an eye.Yes it was an accident,i was on a horse when it happened.Sorry my name,oh Harold King, date Saturday 14th October 1066,i know it's a late claim but i was told there were no time limitations.Hello are you still there.What should i do my Queen this phone thingy has gone dead.

 

[lane]

Such types always blame insurers but the claims don't usually stand up to scrutiny. Even in the rare cases when an insurer has said X would be better than Y, that's not the same as them saying they wouldn't insure Y for a few pounds more. I wonder if insurers will ever tire of being scapegoated.

It comes down to the fact the insurance company won't defend claims if the company had not followed X,y and z and will instead settle which will then put instance costs up substantially.

 

[Drago]

Regarding the no incidents reported, no sensible person would report an incident which might make them look stupid at an accident investigation.

You've just made an assumption, and assumptions are the mother of all fudge ups. Risk = the severity of an adverse event X the likelihood of an adverse event, and calculations must be made upon data, not assumption. If all science was based upon assumption instead of observable data then we'd be in a bit of a pickle, eh?

I do appreciate that gravity makes things descend towards the ground, or more accurataly the earths core. However, there needs to be some external mechanism that first puts these items in a position where their potential energy can be brought to bear. They don't jump off on their own (unless people have been putting animals up there). It's no more dangerous, in reality or potential, than having books on a bookshelf of the similar height, the books being subject to the same physical forces which also fail to make them leap onto people. I mean, you must get a right shock when you walk around the library and don't need an ambulance to get you home.

 

[Dave7]

The same year I started mine as a mechanical engineer. Guards were put on the machines when the safety inspector was due round and removed afterwards because the slowed things down.

Yeats ago I worked for a company that did all sorts of perforated metal & cable trays etc.
I did not (fortunately) witness it but some guy, for some reason, got both hands under the guillotine.......he lost all 8 fingers

 

[newfhouse]

he lost all 8 fingers

Statistically, did he count?

 

[slowmotion]

If panes of glass for windows had never been invented until 2020, do you think they would be allowed? They are suicidally dangerous.

 

[mjr]

It comes down to the fact the insurance company won't defend claims if the company had not followed X,y and z and will instead settle which will then put instance costs up substantially.

Well, yes, but insurers don't seem to say that half as often as the elf n safety wonks claim when trying to push through their pet nutty crusade. Councils cutting down conker trees, anyone?

 

[mjr]

Statistically, did he count?

Yes, but only to 2 unless he took his shoes off.

Sorry.

 

[bruce1530]

We do joke and despair about Elf’n’Safety, and undoubtedly there are H&S bods who are a touch “over-enthusiastic” (or maybe just ill-informed or poorly trained) who implement ridiculous rules.

But this hides the overall good that the H&S culture brings.
When the Health & Safety at Work Act was introduced in 1974, large parts of industry insisted it wasn’t needed, that they were already “safe enough” and that this was an overly bureaucratic burden that would cost them money.

That year, around 700 people died in accidents in UK industry. For the last 10 years or so, that figure has been around 100. The “Elf and Safety” culture has saved lives.
Still got a way to go though.

 

[Pale Rider]

I've seen a few Health and Safety Executive inspectors give evidence in various court cases.

All struck me as sensible, down to earth people who obviously have expertise in their field.

I reckon the bad name given to health and safety is mostly the fault of employees who are asked to act as officers for their workplace but don't have any clue how to go about it.

 

[gbb]

It comes down to the fact the insurance company won't defend claims if the company had not followed X,y and z and will instead settle which will then put instance costs up substantially.

Due Diligence I called it, our company is awash with it. It sometimes seems pretty, like the fact we have to sign to say we have cleaned the workshop every day...and the petty thing is you have then to get another person to countersign it. I think someone here I.luminated me...its purpose is to ensure the workshop is clean and tidy, thus reducing risk...and the counter signature reduces the chances of someone signing without cleaning, simply put, cheating the system. Just a simple example...the company is reducing risk and protecting itself at the same time from increasing insurance costs.