Health & Safety gone ... just gone

[Joey Shabadoo]

Recently, a couple of factories my company supplies took on a new Health & Safety Manager. An ex-army Sergeant Major, this guy quickly became something of a terror. He insisted that my company fit safety guards on over 300 tools despite there being no recorded accidents with thousands of these tools over thirty years. He ordered restrictive and inhibiting PPE for the workers and put the company to considerable expense trying to mitigate against pretty minor risks. He banned brooms and insisted hoovers be brought on to the factory floor for example, as brooms stir up airborne particles. Last week he almost caused a strike at one factory after he decided the company had to stop using MDF entirely as the dust is carcinogenic (despite the saws and routers being fitted with their own dust extraction systems). On Friday his employment was terminated.

There's obviously a place for H&S but there has to be a balance between mitigating real risk and practicality. This guy didn't know where that line was and clearly enjoyed the power trip he was on.

Anybody else ever come across this type? Any examples of H&S just being, well, silly?

 

[gbb]

Most I've come across are reasonable, some actually very good. The fact the guy in question was ex military explains some of it, i remember saying to my dad, ex RAF, about H&S getting a deep grip on things, at the time it seemed OTT, how would the military deal with it ?
It came from the military he replied, theres a culture of absolute accountability, a very specific and correct way of doing things, all well embedded and as these guys move into the civilian world, they took it with them and make for excellent H&S officers.
Clearly they need to take into account the impact it has on a company's ability to operate and it seems this guy failed to do that.
I saw one rep get fired years ago after he carried on the same way.
A lot of H&S nowadays is Due Diligence,ensuring training is conducted, there are evidence trails, occupational health, seemingly silly things occasionally but of course, its as much about protecting the company as it is protecting the individual.

 

[Drago]

When I was a copper we were banned from placing any items atop our lockers. They might fall off and land on someone's head, you see. Quite by what mechanism they would suddenly fall off was never explained.

Anyway, one Bobby checked with the local HSE people and since records began there had been no incidents reported to them of any person being injured by any item leaping off the top of lockers.

Another one. Chap I know worked for Northampton Borough Carncil on their street lighting. The carncil went through a brief phase of only fitting lamp posts that hinged at the bottom because climbing the special ladder or using a cherry picker to chage bulbs is dangerous. So dangerous in fact, there had been zero such incidents since the department was formed in the early 50's. That they cost twice as much as regular lamp posts, and they were dangerous themselves because the mechanisms were vulnerable to tampering and kids were dropping them down and fannying about with them, didn't seem to register with the H&S penpushers - for them it was important that staff were protected from accidents that had never come close to happening. They lasted about a year in their job before being removed.

The problem with this sort of rubbish is that it detracts from the safety message when a genuine issue needs addressing.

 

[oldwheels]

One of my sons was a H&S manager for a while and claimed that a lot of the apparent nonsense rules in fact were dictated by insurance companies. He worked for a sub contractor and was warned by a friend in the parent company that they were suspicious of him as he did not have enough recorded accidents.

 

[mjr]

One of my sons was a H&S manager for a while and claimed that a lot of the apparent nonsense rules in fact were dictated by insurance companies.

Such types always blame insurers but the claims don't usually stand up to scrutiny. Even in the rare cases when an insurer has said X would be better than Y, that's not the same as them saying they wouldn't insure Y for a few pounds more. I wonder if insurers will ever tire of being scapegoated.

 

[tom73]

@Drago say's it's crap like this and silly sports in the press that risks really safety stuff getting missed.

I do remember one positive outcome of using the rules to letter.

When I was a student the mis-management wanted to take over our maths classroom for meetings one day a week. Meaning we had to move rooms. Our classroom was quite a homely place so the teacher was not happy she. It was unwise to take her one a she was more than a match for anyone and told you how it was. But a great teacher just did not take crap from management or anyone.

They told us to move into a room that was at one time a store room. Only way to get desks in was 3 long row's with a gap in the at one end.
So once you got in that was it. So all 25 of us got packed in, it was a right mess only real way to get in and out was climbing over the desks. After one day she said "right we are not having this"

Her husband was a chemistry teacher at my old school so with her maths and his science and armed with H and S regs. She worked out that the room did not have enough air per Squared meter for us all. We never did use that room again

 

[steveindenmark]

My brother is our H&S man. Once a year H&S visit and tell us what needs updating. This is done to the letter and quickly.

The rest is done with a large dose of common sense.

By the way he is an ex 25 year military man. 😁

There has been 2 accidents i n the past 15 years. Both by experience sewing machinists sticking their hands under needles.

 

[Drago]

Some of you may know, but many will not, that it has been held in court that riding a bicycle at work comes under PUWER. This arose after a postman broke his leg and took the Royal Mail to court for a 6 figure compo payout, and won. If you use a bicycle at or for work then your employer must ensure you are competent in it's safe use and provide any necessary training.

 

[twentysix by twentyfive]

how would the military deal with it ?

I'm not going to work today. There are bullets and shells flying about. Might get my eye taken out by one of those.

 

[welsh dragon]

My brother is our H&S man. Once a year H&S visit and tell us what needs updating. This is done to the letter and quickly.

The rest is done with a large dose of common sense.

By the way he is an ex 25 year military man. 😁

There has been 2 accidents i n the past 15 years. Both by experience sewing machinists sticking their hands under needles.

Tricky things sewing machines are. You have to watch the little blighters very closely to stop them from grabbing you.

They are very dangerous that's why there are only millions of them in people's homes.

 

[numbnuts]

On the other hand when I started my apprenticeship in 1968 as a blacksmith no one told us that the level of noise in the shop could damage your ears, no one cared in the “good old days” I'm now deaf in one ear and the other one is not much better.

 

[Dave7]

I worked for a really good company that was bought over by Shell. The money they spent ((or made our company spend) on H&S was staggering. Classed as being management I was sent on various courses, some lasting 3 days/4 nights in 4 or 5 star hotels. After a few years they sold us and it all stopped

 

[Drago]

I worked for a really good company that was bought over by Shell. The money they spent ((or made our company spend) on H&S was staggering. Classed as being management I was sent on various courses, some lasting 3 days/4 nights in 4 or 5 star hotels. After a few years they sold us and it all stopped

It's always sad when the gravy train stops rolling.

 

[gbb]

I'm not going to work today. There are bullets and shells flying about. Might get my eye taken out by one of those.

Tongue in cheek aside, it's the background stuff that it effects most, for instance ( I cant remember the exact figures) a Vulcan required something lie 80 hours maintenance for every hour flying, a lot of that I suspect was checks, checks, checks, everything done by the letter and accounted for. Dad said a civilian aircraft wouldnt get that level of care, the companies would go bust pdq.

 

[sleuthey]

I mitigate risks for a living. I do safety only, not the health bit. I mitigate risks as far as reasonably practicable, anything beyond is "grossly disproportionate" IE. A waste of money. In order to know where to stop I classify the risks in the first place and only heavily mitigate the highest risks. Sounds like this chap just mitigated anything.

However, just because there are "no recorded accidents doesn't mean there were no accidents. He was perhaps bought in to improve the reporting culture. Also, the whole point in jobs like that is to prevent accidents in the first place, learning from historic accidents comes second in the list of priorities.