Helmet saved my life yesterday

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Drago

Legendary Member
I think the OP was rejoicing in the exhilaration of cheating death. Then along cones soneone who may well then be correct, but who then negates their own cause with their poor understanding of physics, and it is they who should have their man vegetables placed in a cycle helmet and then hit with a blunt instrument.
 

screenman

Legendary Member
No but it replicate an impact of some sort, now you never know what sort of impact the old bonce would have when hitting the deck, so I would say he has a good point.
 

screenman

Legendary Member
Adrian, I got in trouble yesterday for going off topic and this thread starts with Helmet, so I thought it best not to stray.^_^

Well at least after reading your anecdote we can disregard the rotational theory some guys talk about. The one that says wearing a helmet can be more dangerous.
 

Drago

Legendary Member
Adrian, my proposed experiment would replicate it closer that your grasp of physics ever could.

If you really want to help the no-helmet lobby there's one thing you could do that could advance their cause - stay off their side.
 

Drago

Legendary Member
Adrian is clearly determined to troll this topic way off topic for no other reason than he enjoys sabotaging the anti helmet lobby. Don't know what they ever did to him, but hey ho.
 

GrumpyGregry

Here for rides.
Adrian is clearly determined to troll this topic way off topic for no other reason than he enjoys sabotaging the anti helmet lobby. Don't know what they ever did to him, but hey ho.

id be happy to hit you when youre wearing a melon on your head, then you can hit me when I'm wearing a helmet, and we'll see who comes off best

Drago.Lee_M. If I shoot you in the head whilst you are wearing a helmet will it mitigate against the injury caused? If not why not? How about if I use an axe? If instead of shooting you I slam a baseball bat down onto your skull with a force of 12G's, or 10G's or 8G's or 6G's will the helmet save you from serious injury? If not why not? If I drop you on your helmeted head onto a solid object from various heights such that your skull impacts at 50, 40, 30, 20 mph will your helmet protect you? If not why not?

Helmets are designed to work and are tested for low G impacts, i.e. from low heights (actually lower than the height of my head when on a bike) and at jogging speed.
 

Lee_M

Guru
Drago.Lee_M. If I shoot you in the head whilst you are wearing a helmet will it mitigate against the injury caused? If not why not? How about if I use an axe? If instead of shooting you I slam a baseball bat down onto your skull with a force of 12G's, or 10G's or 8G's or 6G's will the helmet save you from serious injury? If not why not? If I drop you on your helmeted head onto a solid object from various heights such that your skull impacts at 50, 40, 30, 20 mph will your helmet protect you? If not why not?

Helmets are designed to work and are tested for low G impacts, i.e. from low heights (actually lower than the height of my head when on a bike) and at jogging speed.

not sure why you are asking me that question to be honest?

what point are you trying to make?
 
I have avoided all helmet debates! That is partly because I'm a fence sitter, and partly because I avoid most heated arguments on the forum. But I'd like to ask what people think of this article.

Not much. You need to read the paper it refers to (not for the squeamish so stop reading now if you are). But the problem with the paper can be summed up with this one line from it:

Despite the conclusively proven protection offered by bicycle helmets, usage rates remain abysmally low.
No agenda with the authors there then.

They took child cadaver skulls, soaked them in room temperature water for 24 hours, filled them with lead weights to get them up to 4lbs weight and then poured in polymer resin to fix the lead weights in place. They then used those in place of the standard head-form in a cycle helmet testing rig to find out they replicated [1] the result of the helmet test rig. Which was never in doubt.

What is in doubt is how meaningful that is in the real world because here is the effect of child helmet wearing rates on child head injuries in Ontario, Canada. i.e. whatever all these contrived laboratory tests show, in the real world the effectiveness is zero.

Photo Apr 14, 6 17 37.gif



[1] Actually they didn't replicate the result of the standard headform tests because their accelerometer didn't have enough range to do the measurements for anything over a drop of 9 inches compared to a drop of 1-2m in actual helmet tests. Why they didn't buy an accelerometer with a suitable range to do the experiment is beyond me but such is the nature of poor science. What they did find though was an unhelmeted skull underwent an deceleration of 440±79G when dropped 6" which is about 50% above the maximum tolerance level of the brain. Now do we really believe that kids will for certain be killed or suffer traumatic brain injury if they hit their heads falling from a height of 6" or do we think their experiment could be just a little bit not representative of reality?

They also did a resistance to crushing forces test and I am still trying to work out what on earth the results are. These are they as quoted in the paper:

Compression Testing
Evaluation of the helmet-only compression data showed initial cracking that occurred in the range of 100–200 lbf. The average cracking force was found to be 140 lbf. The skull and helmet assembly could not be crushed in the compression stand even under the maximum force experienced by the load cell (470 lbf). It could be seen during testing, however, that the helmets without the skull cracked at approximately 190 lbf. This is consistent with data from the compression testing provided by the manufacturer of the selected helmet used during the tests. The unhelmeted skull underwent catastrophic failure during testing, experiencing a maximum load of 520 lbf.
So the bare empty skull cracked at 50lbf above the maximum force of the load cell? And what would the helmet plus skull have done if exposed to that same force? And do bare helmets crack at 140lbf or 190lbf. Totally confused and confusing.
 
In the interests of science I propose an experiment.

I need a volunteer. I will ask the volunteer to wear a helmet and then punch them with all my night in the head. We will measure any injury and then proceed to phase 2.

In phase 2 we will repeat the experiment but without the helmet, and compare the injury to any injury received in phase 1.

The standard response to this standard proposal is twenty one. Which is for the uninitiated is asking Drago to stand still while I swing a baseball bat hard an inch above the top of his scalp and then repeat the exercise while he is wearing a helmet. Helmets double the likelihood you will hit your head compared to an un-helmeted head (because they make your head twice as big)
 
The curious thing is the OP was saying the helmet saved his life by providing somewhere to store his glasses and gloves, not because it prevented a head injury. But that seems to have gone right over the heads of some of the helmet brigade.
 
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