Help to identify my vintage Raleigh please

[SF959]

Hello

I expect that there are a huge number of extremely knowledgeable vintage cycle experts on this forum and would be VERY grateful if the community could please help me out.

I have just bought a vintage Raleigh: spur of the moment thing when I turned up to a friend's house and he had just picked the bike up as part of a 'job lot' with some motorcycles he was offered and bought.

I love the patina of age and nostalgia is evokes!

It is painted black including the mudguards etc.
Raleigh "The All Steel Bicycle". (No idea exactly which model: there seems quite a few)
23" Frame (I think)
3-speed Sturmey Archer gears - that work.
Dynamo that works brilliantly.
It seems to have a steering lock on the left-side of the fork? where would I get a key for that?
Sticker on the downtube and Bell engraving show the Cycle Shop supplier name: Skelton & Son, Sankey Street, Warrington. (Can't find anything on this old shop)

Any information about what bike it is and age etc would be very gratefully received.
Is it 1940's, 1950's or even 1960's?

I am looking to keep it in the condition it is. It looks original (???) and like the principle: 'things are only original once', so I won't be restoring it.

I would also please like guidance and advice on the following if anyone is able to help:

1) What accessory rear rack would be appropriate to this bike and where may I find a suitably old looking original black one? What makes and specifications should I look for?

2) Likewise, I would like to fit a suitably old Saddle Bag from the same era (to hang off the rear of the Brookes saddle) and where would I find one of those?
What makes and specifications should I look for?

3) Likewise, a suitable black pump from the same era, where would I get one of these? It is 15 3/4 inches in distance between the flats of the respective mounting positions on the downtube.
What makes and specifications should I look for? I have included a photo of the pump adaptor that came with the bike ...but no pump? It is in great condition. It bears the word "Germany" on it but I can't see what make it is. Did Raleigh do their own pumps for this bike? What would be the best quality pump to go for this bike?

4) What would be the best replacement vintage looking tyres (and tubes) to fit to it and where may I buy some? (It is not rideable at the moment as both tyres are flat and the existing tyre rubber is badly perished)

5) Finally, I would like to locate and fit an appropriate full stand or side stand (so I obviously don't have to lean it on a wall or fence)? What would be correct for the year(s) the bike was produced: side or full stand or either/both? Which colour? Which type of metal? What names and specifications?

I am in the North West and can travel to any location in my area for the accessories I seek (eg bike jumbles, cycle museums, old bike shops etc etc) but I haven't got a clue what I am looking for or where to look/go.

So any genuine helpful advice from the community would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Regards

 

[classic33]

Ironmongers (William & Wilfred Skeltons Ironmongers), who appear to have branched out into bicycles & gramophones in the 1930's. Address was 55 Skelton Street during this time.

Check the rear hub for markings to get a better date. Then the bottom bracket and rear dropouts for any numbers/letters.

You'll have to pick the steering lock, don't drill it out, if it's locked. You could try "keying" it. But it'll take time.

A bit more about Wilfred Skelton the Ironmonger. Clearly quite a wealthy and educated family.

1901 Census shows he and his family living at a house called 'Hill Side', Red Lane, Walton Inferior (in Stockton Heath) Aged 43 and a RETIRED Ironmonger.

1911 Census shows him living at Hill Cliffe, Appleton, aged 53 living on 'Independent Means' and one of his sons who still lived at home was a Solicitor (clever boy).

Skeltons were also gunsmiths, at a seperate address in the same area.

 

[raleighnut]

Nice

I'd say it was a 50's 'Roadster' (if it was pre-war the rear mudguard would have the bottom section painted white) trouble was they made a bike like this up until the 70's

 

[biggs682]

@SF959 nice find and glad to hear that you are keeping it in as found , i have just picked up A Rudge at last of similar vintage

Tyres check what size they are i would expect them to be 26 x 1 3/8 , if so most good bike shops should still sell them if not use sjs https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tyres-26-590/

Pump again lots of bike shops will do one that fit ok , but i would'nt expect them to be great at inflating tyres

Saddle bag the Rudge i picked up came with a very nice original one fitted , i might even have another in the garage so will check and look . If not e bay and local car boots are good places .

Should be a frame number at the top of the seat tube normally it will start with a letter then 5 or 6 digits loads of info on line re raliegh frame number dating

not sure re lock key i may look for one

have fun

 

[mjr]

2) the Carradice cotton duck saddlebags would probably be a sympathetic modern one and easy to find because they're still made. Brooks make some again now but there was a long gap in production, so I suspect they'll be too new, falling to bits or very expensive.

4) If the tyres are 590mm bead-seat diameter aka 26x1⅜" aka 650A then they're not that hard to find because some modern bikes like Bobbins still use them. I don't know where you are, but the Wilco Fastfit car spares chain in East Anglia stock Kenda 650A tubes, although they're Schrader not Woods valve. I'm not sure if they have tyres because I got gumwall Schwalbe Delta Cruisers in that size from a local bike shop, which I think are a good compromise between vintage-look and modern ride comfort.

5) I suspect your best bet for vintage-looking modern would be a black steel U-shaped or W-shaped flip-down stand, one that attaches to the rear axle or possibly a plate between the chainstays if you have such a thing that hasn't rusted through. I've not spotted any stock in UK stores, sadly, but I've not checked them all. SJS have some silver Pletscher plain-metal ones which might be OK on hard surfaces but will dig in on soft ground (I've got a similar less-good one on one bike so you can guess what happened... ) and maybe shiny silver will look too new on that bike.

Good luck!

 

[classic33]

Nice

I'd say it was a 50's 'Roadster' (if it was pre-war the rear mudguard would have the bottom section painted white) trouble was they made a bike like this up until the 70's

Address showing didn't exist post war. From the quick search earlier.

 

[raleighnut]

Address showing didn't exist post war. From the quick search earlier.

So it could be pre-war?

 

[classic33]

So it could be pre-war?

Quite probable. Bombed out would lessen the chances of stock surving.

 

[SF959]

Hello All

I am overwhelmed with the response so far!

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

I have so much to learn.

classic33: for the wonderful history of Skelton and Son. Brilliant! I would like to know more if anyone can assist or direct me to where I may find more information? The bike is stored in my friend's for the time being. When next there I will check the hub, bottom bracket and seat tube for any identification numbers. Regarding the steering lock: it is not locked. Checked it today. Looks perfect (i.e undamaged).It bears the marker "NGN 40". So perhaps there is a chance to find a key at some point.

raleighnut: Potentially the model 'Roadster'? Thank you very much. I will investigate further.

biggs682: Yes, it stays 'as is'. I don't think I will even clean it!I love the look and 'feel' of your 'new' Rudge. Very similar to mine I agree. Are all Saddle Bags THAT bid?! It looks huge! I like the look of it though. I know Brooks did them ... but does anyone know if Raleigh did a matching saddle bag? In black: it's all got to be black. Thanks for the though to check if you have something appropriate to fit. Let me know if you do please. It MUST look old though! I will check the numbers when I next get to my friend's house. If you have a spare key or an appropriate key-cut that would be fantastic (as above: the face of the lock is stamped 'NGN 40' if that means anything to you or anyone?) When I put the post on I had no idea of the tyre size. Checked today: Raleigh Roadster tyres, size 26 x 1 3/8. Quick ebay search on my phone shows that they are readily available with modern Scraeder-valved inner tubes? There is no inner valve on the front wheel - so its totally flat. The rear wheel has a valve like I have never seen. The pump adaptor that was passed to me with the bike bearing only the name 'Germany' along it's length screwed straight on to the rear wheel valve. ... but my modern Joe Blow Track Pump wouldn't fit it! So new vintage looking tyres and tubes with modern valves will be purchased.

As an aside .... do you or does anyone in the community know would it have come originally with all black tyres or with gum-walled (?) brown tyre walls?

I want to get this bike right in every detail with the things I now fit to it.

mjr: I would like to fit a Brooks or Raleigh saddle bag to match the existing Brooks saddle (model B66???) . And I know from another interest I have that the badge on the existing saddle may be unique to a certain production period and a saddle bag with a differently designed Brooks badge may be from another time/era/period (i.e earlier or more modern) and be 'incorrect' to fit. "Anorack" stuff no doubt .... but the devil is in the detail and I want it to be 'right'.
Please see above re tyres.
Great advice regarding the stand options: thank you. I know someone who has a 1940's bike with a stand (presumably U-stand or W-stand as you describe them?) which lifts the rear wheel completely off the floor. Pretty sure that the bike came to him with it fitted. I will have to go and examine it now!
Vintage dirty and rusty side stand for 26 inch wheels is another possible option?
Where can I get a U-stand or W-stand?

Possibly pre-war? Hmmm. When I sent some photos over to the friend with the 40's bike he said it was post-war as it has cable operated brakes? and rod-brakes were pre-war and during the war? Obviously I don't have a clue.

What does the community think about metal saddle bag support things that fit under the seat structure or bolt on to the sear post? Correct for this bike? Useful addition? Or waste of time and money?

Pump? What size should I be looking for? accurately measured distance between the flats on the mounting points to be 15 3/4 inches. So do I need to look for a black Raleigh '16 inch' pump or other size? What about the adaptor to fit modern valves? Are they all aluminium? What specification or design should I be looking for when scouring ebay and the internet?

Rear Rack. would this be okay to fit? Again what design or spec shall I be looking for? My friend says he has a spare one somewhere from the 40's that he bought but thinking that he said it looks like the bike is post war that it may not be appropriate. But then does that matter too much? Is such a thing as a rack something that would have been a consistant production design that wouldn't have change much or at all through the 1940's into the 1950's? Would they basically be the same?

I really need to get back to the bike and find those numbers to identify when the bike was produced.

I have to say, when the bike is pushed and rolls along there is a lovely quiet clicking/ticking noise coming from the hub (I think). Sounds like a Swiss-watch! Marvellous!

Thank you all very much for the invaluable advice and guidance.

If anyone else in the community wants to chip in with advice and guidance I would similarly be most grateful.

I have so much to learn.

Thank you. Best regards.

 

[classic33]

What the steering lock has inside

 

[raleighnut]

Rod brakes carried on well into he 50's on some models, others had 'Bowden' cables before WW2.

View: https://youtu.be/FaxRQh03BOw

 

[raleighnut]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...Bowden_cable&usg=AOvVaw0SG5BvsfVDj3wPCfEWmjuJ

 

[Ozzie770]

Rod brakes carried on well into he 50's on some models, others had 'Bowden' cables before WW2.

View: https://youtu.be/FaxRQh03BOw

Love the video

 

[Illaveago]

If you can find an old key cutting place they should have loads of different types of keys in ordered bunches.

From the illustration it looks as though they came with single edged key.

Have fun doing it up.

 

[SF959]

Hello all

I have been to inspect the bike at my friend's house.
As far as I can make out the serial number on the three-speed Sturmey Archer hub is:
GB PATENT
593 1(?) 89

Thanks to classic33 for direction to look at the hub.

Difficult to make out the numbers. Are they the right sequence and numbers or are there other numbers on the hub to identify its date of production?
Photo attached, hopefully.

Regarding the frame number:
If it is the correct number located at the top near side of the seat the : thank you biggs682 for the direction where to look
It appears to be either
35945
AF

Or 35943
AF
?

Is it the right number?
See attached photos, hopefully.

Or are there other numbers that I need to locate and record?

Many thanks for all the help.

Does this help identify a date when the bike was produced?

Kind regards