Holding cars up...

[thnurg]

It breaks my heart to say it, but some HelmetCammery is good, entertaining or even helpful. Silly Cyclists is often all three. If quoted, I will deny having said that.

However... I thought I'd broaden my mind by watching some Magnatom, the cause of this thread.

I was left slightly startled and a little unnerved. One of them is called 'Out of my way!'. Take a peep, but sit down before viewing.

Certainly the woman driving the Freelander shows poor manners, but Magnatom has filtered past her and then stayed put as the lights changed.

I was a motorcycle courier in London in the 80s and still commute there sometimes on a bicycle. Elbows are (partly) for keeping door mirrors and wide loads away from your vital organs. Filtering between vehicles requires the filtering party to take some responsibility and show some manners.

Having been mildly brushed by the Freelander he'd just filtered past and then blocked, Magnatom inexplicably catches up and unleashes a mouthful of expletives. By the yelling and squawking you'd think a weapon had been drawn.

Magnatom, it is not polite to pass a vehilcle in traffic and then remain stationary when that vehicle has only your presence preventing it from moving forward. Whether the road offers 20m, 200m or 20km of space for the driver to occupy, good manners require that you don't move in front of someone and then block their progress. I am amused that you think that a reasonable position...

The tirade of abusive language (both for the driver's ears and just yelled into the traffic) is indicative of quite an angry soul. It was also rather horrid to be personally abusive to the driver. Martial arts can be helpful if you have anger issues.

Yes, she passed you more closely than I find appropriate later in the tape. There is no excuse for that.

But there is plenty of mitigation.

Why do people feel the need to post online clips that I'd delete out of embarrassment in the unlikely event that I'd filmed them?

Magnatom, you're not the Lone Ranger, it's not the Wild West and if you are horrid to other road users they might be horrid back. It doesn't excuse their behaviour, but it can explain it a little.

The Freelander driver was bad, naughty and not good in the final close pass.

You, on the other hand....

I feel the need to stick up for magnatom on this one.

Where he was wrong:

• (Possibly) bad road position. Not enough of a view is available to see this but it looks like a more defensive position could have been taken behind the freelander.
• Aggressive reaction. It's better to remain calm, but can be difficult when you've had a scare and the adrenalin is pumping.
• Bad language. He states that he regretted it later, but again, adrenalin.

Where she was wrong:

• No matter how annoyed you may be at another road user, using your car as a weapon against them is totally inappropriate, dangerous and downright stupid.
• Looking at the traffic ahead she gains nothing by being so quick off the lights, and would have lost nothing by letting him stay in front.

While she may be justified at being a little annoyed, magnatom is justified at being outraged. That's the point of the video.

 

[mr_hippo]

I'll retract "fanatic" and replace it with "zealot" - happy now, Mr_H?

You helmet cam users are all the same - defensive and blinkered!

Happy - no! I think I have had a camera on my head twice. i have only given a couple of links to my videos on this site. I never post traffic incidents because they are a fleeting moment in my ride - if they hapoen at all.

I have just started a website, just three videos on at the moment,Videos will be linked with route maps and directions/notes. The site is in its infancy at the moment, if anyone wants the address please pm me.

 

[MrHappyCyclist]

Magnatom, it is not polite to pass a vehilcle in traffic and then remain stationary when that vehicle has only your presence preventing it from moving forward. Whether the road offers 20m, 200m or 20km of space for the driver to occupy, good manners require that you don't move in front of someone and then block their progress. I am amused that you think that a reasonable position...

I can see why you hold this belief, but it shows that you are applying the same cock-eyed logic that many motorists unthinkingly apply. If you watch the whole video, you can see very well that the woman's progress in her journey has not been impeded by even a microsecond because of the cyclist.

It is no more sensible for a motorist to be annoyed at a cyclist's using his/her narrow width to get past them and then temporarily get in front than it is for a cyclist to be annoyed at a motorist's using his/her superior power-to-weight ratio to get past them and then temporarily get in front. In fact, I'm pretty sure I am delayed far more by motorists who have overtaken me than the other way round, probably by at least an order of magnitude, but I certainly don't get annoyed by that. It's just swings and roundabouts.

I believe her attitude (and possibly yours) is determined wholly by an ingrained belief in the supremacy of the motor car over all other road users.

What is totally unacceptable is this woman's deliberately ("you put yourself there") colliding with a cyclist because she disagrees with his road position.

 

[Bicycle]

I feel the need to stick up for magnatom on this one.

Where he was wrong:

• (Possibly) bad road position. Not enough of a view is available to see this but it looks like a more defensive position could have been taken behind the freelander.
• Aggressive reaction. It's better to remain calm, but can be difficult when you've had a scare and the adrenalin is pumping.
• Bad language. He states that he regretted it later, but again, adrenalin.

Where she was wrong:

• No matter how annoyed you may be at another road user, using your car as a weapon against them is totally inappropriate, dangerous and downright stupid.

While she may be justified at being a little annoyed, magnatom is justified at being outraged. That's the point of the video.

I agree with you. You have a more succinct way of putting it than I do.

I did say in my post that her behaviour later in the clip was inexcusable. It was.No question.

Nonetheless, I think Magnatom displays very poor manners and by filtering past her and then stopping in a position that meant she had to brush past him... and not moving when the lights changed..... he was poking a venomous snake with a stick.

She didn't move across to brush past him; she just moved forward. It is clear from his camera view that he moves to the left (into her lane) before putting a foot down.

That was bad manners and not the sort of thing I'd advertise online about my own riding or driving.

Nonetheless, your mitigation of Magnatom's fairly extreme and abusive reaction is well put and well argued.

 

[Origamist]

Happy - no! I think I have had a camera on my head twice. i have only given a couple of links to my videos on this site. I never post traffic incidents because they are a fleeting moment in my ride - if they hapoen at all.

I have just started a website, just three videos on at the moment,Videos will be linked with route maps and directions/notes. The site is in its infancy at the moment, if anyone wants the address please pm me.

I'm teasing you Mr_H!

That said, over the years you have zealously regularly made a bee-line for threads that contain film shot by cyclists in order to give us the benefit of your cycling wisdom, which usually consists of little more than: "I can't believe you did not anticipate that u-turn, left-hook, right-hook, close pass, opening door, shoot-eating alien (delete as applicable) so stop whinging" etc. It ain't exactly, err, Confucius-like (although maybe I'm setting the bar a bit high).

If I do return to Thailand next year, I'll pm you about the site.

 

[col]

I agree with you. You have a more succinct way of putting it than I do.

I did say in my post that her behaviour later in the clip was inexcusable. It was.No question.

Nonetheless, I think Magnatom displays very poor manners and by filtering past her and then stopping in a position that meant she had to brush past him... and not moving when the lights changed..... he was poking a venomous snake with a stick.

She didn't move across to brush past him; she just moved forward. It is clear from his camera view that he moves to the left (into her lane) before putting a foot down.

That was bad manners and not the sort of thing I'd advertise online about my own riding or driving.

Nonetheless, your mitigation of Magnatom's fairly extreme and abusive reaction is well put and well argued.

I dont believe it, this cant be true, it seems that he just might have helped cause some of this, so it could be recorded and put on a public veiwing place , and try to claim bad driving from this target er I mean driver
No no Bicycle you have it all wrong

 

[Bicycle]

Your attitude (and hers) is determined wholly by your ingrained belief in the supremacy of the motor car over all other road users.

Tyhere is a difference; she brushed him; I wouldn't. I'd just giggle at the lack of manners and keep struggling through the heavy traffic. Although I think he shows poor manners, I do not think she comes out of it well. Not top of my charm list if I ever need to replace Mrs Bicycle.

What is totally unacceptable is this woman's deliberately ("you put yourself there") colliding with a cyclist because she disagrees with his road position.

I find her close pass late in the clip very bad. It looks like what some people call a 'punishment pass' and it is horrid. I do not like the term, because it implies some sort of initial sin, but some people use it. As to the initial contact (brush) that happens all the time. Frequency doesn't make it OK at all, but he had clearly been impolite and she was being impolite back. It wasn't a collision.

I do accept (to a degree) the hegemony of the motor vehicle in most situations in the early 21st century, but in the clip the bicycle was clearly king. He had several times the speed and was (rightly) using it. The bad manners emerged when he stoipped filtering and remained stationary in the road where she wanted to place her car. it matters not whether she had 20m or 2000m to move into. It's a matter of manners. he showed his were lacking.

That doesn't excuse her later behaviour. What I said (and continue to think) is that it offered some mitigation. There is no excuse.

If Magnatom gets squeaky, squawky, shouty and abusive when his elbow is brushed at walking speed, may I suggest a little less filtering and slightly better manners. I write this as a compulsive between-the-lanes filterer myself.

I do take your point; I just see things differently.

 

[Origamist]

I dont believe it, this cant be true, it seems that he just might have helped cause some of this, so it could be recorded and put on a public veiwing place , and try to claim bad driving from this target er I mean driver
No no Bicycle you have it all wrong

Choreography, Col, choreography...

 

[col]

Choreography, Col, choreography...

Sorry I knew there was a word for it, alledgedly

 

[Bicycle]

I dont believe it, this cant be true, it seems that he just might have helped cause some of this, so it could be recorded and put on a public veiwing place , and try to claim bad driving from this target er I mean driver
No no Bicycle you have it all wrong

Tee Hee...

No, I don't for a moment suggest that the cyclist staged this or helped cause it to provide footage.

I don't suggest it and I don't think it.

I think that he displayed poor manners and his reaction was offensive and out of all proportion to the brushing with a door mirror at walking pace.

I say repeatedly that the driving was poor and that there is no excuse for the close pass later in the clip.

The driver is awful. The cyclist doesn't come out of it well either.

 

[snorri]

Does Matthew upload videos? Well I never!

Oh you are a tease.
Look out for his new one of the traffic lights he thought were going to change, but they didn't.

 

[ferret fur]

I was a motorcycle courier in London in the 80s and still commute there sometimes on a bicycle. Elbows are (partly) for keeping door mirrors and wide loads away from your vital organs. Filtering between vehicles requires the filtering party to take some responsibility and show some manners.

Hmm. Out of interest . Did you maintain this zen like calm while being a courier. Did you never attempt to yell, remonstrate or otherwise comment on drivers when you were on a motorbike?

 

[Bicycle]

Hmm. Out of interest . Did you maintain this zen like calm while being a courier. Did you never attempt to yell, remonstrate or otherwise comment on drivers when you were on a motorbike?

Hmmm indeed. I was younger. I was much younger.

I perhaps suffered something not unlike the hot-headedness of youth. It was a long time ago. Times were different.

We were the warriors of the true faith. FX4s and post-office vans were the foe. It's all very confused in my mind.

Insofar as I ever did anything that might be interpreted as an aggressive act or hand signal... ummm....

I also made the odd comment. Maybe.

I do remember I could kickstart a stalled XT550 without putting a foot down - the motorcycle equivalent of a trackstand.

But that's not what you were asking, is it?

Well. It's like this: Do you have proof?

If not, then I was an angel at all times.

If you have the proof, then they were all accidental and no damage was intended.

The defence rests.

Best courier bike in the known universe? V50 Monza on sticky tyres. Light, nippy, quick, pokey, comfy and with brakes that were dreamed up by a god and manufactred by a maestro. Also, a lovely 'lunky-lunky-lunky' noise at red lights. Mmmmmm....

 

[ferret fur]

Ah. I thought so. Mainly because I was fighting the same fight on a GT550 at around about the same time.

The point was, part of the skill was to ensure that other road users treated you with respect. If there was a feeling that you would fight, kill and die for your right to be there people didn't tend to mess with you. One of the scariest experiences I ever had on a motorbike was riding a friend's newly bought CG125 (complete with L plates) across London for him & discovering that I could be safely ignored because I clearly wasn't a pyschopathic courier.

 

[Bicycle]

Strictly on a cycling theme, the scariest thing I ever saw was when following an old aircooled RD250 crossing the Hogarth Roundabout (A316 onto A4) heading into London.

He was a courier.

He hit it way too fast and sparked his pegs A LOT first left, then right then left again as he peeled off onto the A4.
On the middle flip I'm sure his rear wheel was levered off the tarmac.

I thought I was quick (within the speed limit) but that just took my breath away. He probably earned £4.50 for a Twickenham-WC2 and didn't even realise he'd almost given the following rider heart failure.

On GT550s.... I always thought they were a bit 'corporate, and they had that ignition cut-out on the stand, which was fragile and often got stuck on 'off'. Deceptively quick though, like a BMW R80.

Since this is a cycling forum, I also think Trek have done some great work recently. I really dig this season's colourways.

I'm loving my new Campag ergos.