How to Grow Women's Pro-Cycling

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lyn1

Über Member
[quote="resal, Applying sense and market forces is wrong. Rigged markets remain rigged and defeat norms, for centuries if necessary. This is a rigged market - from the governance - women's 500m TT/ men's kilo, through to the male commentator who talks in so derogatory manner of women's races or in Hugh Porter's case often talks over the race about the next men's race. Sky are a massive part of the problem and it sickens me each time I read about their initiatives to grow the sport at the grass roots - only have aspiration if you are male.
quote]


I assume SKY do not preclude females attending Go ride events so presumably your criticism relates to pro team level issues. I struggle to understand the suggestions that SKY should have a women’s road team and blaming them for current apathy, as these arguments do not present any evidence. Having spent 20 years in sponsorship trying to convince companies that sponsorship is not patronage and should deliver a commercial return I cannot buy in to the emotional argument. Presumably, SKY has some communication objectives they wish to fulfil over the next few years. These will include a variety of promotional options of which sponsorship of a men’s cycling team is one element. If, for example, the objective is to increase subscriptions, then brand awareness in key target markets may be a precursor. Who generally makes the decision within a household as to whether to subscribe to SKY? Males or females or both? If it is usually males then heavy focus on a female target is unnecessary. If it is females, then there are many promotional opportunities that could target them. Sponsorship may not be optimal. Even if it is, non sport forms may be better than sport options. Even if it is sport, other female sports may be more effective than cycling. Just because a men’s cycling team contributes to one objective does not mean that a female cycle team can necessarily add anything.
Would you be happy if Sky withdraw all their support for cycling so they no longer represent a problem?
 
Location
Beds
I assume SKY do not preclude females attending Go ride events so presumably your criticism relates to pro team level issues. I struggle to understand the suggestions that SKY should have a women’s road team and blaming them for current apathy, as these arguments do not present any evidence. Having spent 20 years in sponsorship trying to convince companies that sponsorship is not patronage and should deliver a commercial return I cannot buy in to the emotional argument. Presumably, SKY has some communication objectives they wish to fulfil over the next few years. These will include a variety of promotional options of which sponsorship of a men’s cycling team is one element. If, for example, the objective is to increase subscriptions, then brand awareness in key target markets may be a precursor. Who generally makes the decision within a household as to whether to subscribe to SKY? Males or females or both? If it is usually males then heavy focus on a female target is unnecessary. If it is females, then there are many promotional opportunities that could target them. Sponsorship may not be optimal. Even if it is, non sport forms may be better than sport options. Even if it is sport, other female sports may be more effective than cycling. Just because a men’s cycling team contributes to one objective does not mean that a female cycle team can necessarily add anything.
Would you be happy if Sky withdraw all their support for cycling so they no longer represent a problem?

Amen!!!!! :rolleyes:
 
Location
Beds
MF, you commented that you are a professional sportsperson, and have been for 16 years. Which is great, in what sport may I ask, as a point of interest? As an old has-been, I'm always interested to see the succession of people actiually maiking a living from sport.

I PM'd you oldroadman, as I don't think that anybody else is very keen on reading my life story.. ;)
 

oldroadman

Veteran
Location
Ubique
MF, thanks for the PM, and your confidence that I would respect privacy, which I will.
Suffice to say that your background required a lot of dedication - much respect for hanging in there so long.
 

Trail Child

Well-Known Member
Location
Ottawa, Canada
MF, thanks for the PM, and your confidence that I would respect privacy, which I will.
Suffice to say that your background required a lot of dedication - much respect for hanging in there so long.
I am the daughter of two former pro-athletes. I can understand the dedication and sacrifice it takes in a small way.

I have no idea how to promote women's pro-cycling. I definitely watch it when it's on (maybe once a year and only highlights on an all-sports channel?). But than again, I live in a country in which pro-cycling is rarely on TV. I have to rely on satellite sports channels that concentrate on European sports in between soccer games, rugby, cricket & hurling. US channels will show TdF, but rarely anything else.

Women's soccer has become more and more popular here due to the increase in participation from the grassroots. Maybe that is what is needed. Make cycling more appealing to women and women might want to participate at the amateur & professional level more, therefore watch it and demand to watch it. It's hard to get into the ground level when bike stores are all men, geared towards men, and bike shows all have bikini-clad women showing off the latest bikes. Women are only featured at men pro tours as podium girls and masseuses.

It would be nice to have some more cycling heroines and not be the only girl at the cycling club.
 
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Flying_Monkey

Flying_Monkey

Recyclist
Location
Odawa
I've been a woman for the last 43 years and pro athlete for 16, so allow me to know first hand about how people perceive women in sports!
Now if you like to believe that men would prefer to watch women's cycling over men's given the choice (and feel free to swap porno channels with Champions League, Premier League, Rugby Union Heineken Cup, the Ashes or any other goodies for that matter..) be my guest! That's your opinion and we live in a free country!

MF, this is much more interesting. The argument about definitions is pointless - I didn't intend for that to be an issue on this thread and I apologise for helping to divert the main topic. (But I don't know how you read "anger and aggressiveness" into my post BTW. There is neither in the words or the intent, and certainly not directed towards you.)

FWIW, first of all, I don't think it should be just about the consumption of sport (i.e. the selling of images as products). The job of organisations like the UCI and national feds like BC is to encourage participation first of all and this should always be primary. The question of who watches is a secondary one, I would say, because it relates more to how one funds this participation. It would be pretty sad to me to reduce the question of how to grow women's cycling to whether men like to watch it or not. Think of triathlon as a counter-example. Triathlon has grown as a sport for men and women almost purely on the back of participation. Almost no-one watches it. I agree that women's cycling is probably never going to be a major spectator sport, so we shouldn't try to support it on that market-based foundation, instead it should be promoted strategically and subsidized by the UCI and national feds simply because, given the opportunity, women and girls want to race. I can't see the point of either type of organisation if they are not supporting people who want to race.

(PS: I believe resal is also female and involved in competitive cycling, although I may be wrong).
 
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Flying_Monkey

Flying_Monkey

Recyclist
Location
Odawa
I PM'd you oldroadman, as I don't think that anybody else is very keen on reading my life story.. ;)

Well, actually I think your experience would be a very valuable lesson for everyone. If you don't want to post it in the thread, I would love to hear it too...
 
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Flying_Monkey

Flying_Monkey

Recyclist
Location
Odawa
deleted for brevity

I didn't actually call you a misogynist, I said that your statement verged on outright misogyny. I made no insinuations or accusations about you, your personal life or anything beyond this. I sincerely apologise if you received this impression. It was certainly not intended. I would like to bring this to a close because it is an unconstructive diversion from what we are here to discuss.
 

thom

____
Location
The Borough
Women's soccer has become more and more popular here due to the increase in participation from the grassroots. Maybe that is what is needed. Make cycling more appealing to women and women might want to participate at the amateur & professional level more, therefore watch it and demand to watch it.
I think you're right about that - my general impression in the UK is that there is unequal attention in schools to boys/girls sports. Certainly that was the case at my school in N.Ireland 20 years ago.
Things are different in the US due to legislation (I have no idea about Canada) but I suspect it is broadly the same through europe as in the UK - (anyone here who can comment ...?).
I don't buy that a priori women wouldn't be interested in sport but I do think its one of those things that needs to be part of your life when you grow up.
That said, what help is possible for women's pro-cycling now ?
I seriously think that making certain qualification standards easier for men's teams with female counterparts would be beneficial, at least sending a message that the UCI is prepared to back women's cycling.
 
Location
Beds
FWIW, first of all, I don't think it should be just about the consumption of sport (i.e. the selling of images as products). The job of organisations like the UCI and national feds like BC is to encourage participation first of all and this should always be primary. The question of who watches is a secondary one, I would say, because it relates more to how one funds this participation. It would be pretty sad to me to reduce the question of how to grow women's cycling to whether men like to watch it or not. Think of triathlon as a counter-example. Triathlon has grown as a sport for men and women almost purely on the back of participation. Almost no-one watches it. I agree that women's cycling is probably never going to be a major spectator sport, so we shouldn't try to support it on that market-based foundation, instead it should be promoted strategically and subsidized by the UCI and national feds simply because, given the opportunity, women and girls want to race. I can't see the point of either type of organisation if they are not supporting people who want to race.

(PS: I believe resal is also female and involved in competitive cycling, although I may be wrong).

As I said before, I totally agree with your point of view, my only objection to what you say is that it's possibly too romantic for a world where everything is translated as money! Triathlon is indeed growing, but then again it's still quite "pure" if you like. Not much money earned, not much money invested, not yet spoiled, plus in itself it's a lower maintenance sport in terms of its supporting mechanism (at least compared to stage racing in cycling, team participations etc).
 
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