hub gear bikes for kids?

[outlash]

It would be risky. UK cyclists (and especially bike shops) are still disproportionately racing-inspired and bigoted against hub gears. Of course everyone needs 10% gear steps so they can match the speed of a peloton easily while maintaining optimum cadence at the expense of fiddlier cleaning and adjustment for riding to the shops or park

You really don't like people riding bikes at speed do you?

The fact is that there is a market for Islabikes at the prices they're asking (and some other brands now too), and my point is that 3 speed hubs should fit within those prices and specs (same price, same weight). I remember that Islabikes were seen as bold for offering MTB style kids bikes without useless front suspension, maybe ditching the derailleur is another move in this direction?

Another thing to take into account is cost. A quick google brings up Sturmy Archer 3 speed hubs at around £60 and up. Nexus 3, £45. I recently had to replace the derailleur on my son's Frog Bike, it cost £8.50 (Shimano Tourney). A £300 bike suddenly becomes north of £375 time you factor in the usual retail odds and ends. TBH, Isla, Frog et al have it right IMO. Single chainring at the front and a derailleur at the back. It's cheap, Simple, light and works just like most adults bikes. I don't have a problem with hub gears, I have one myself, but I can't see the advantages for a child's bike.

Why not email Isla & Frog and ask why they don't have a hub gear option?

 

[mjr]

You really don't like people riding bikes at speed do you?

Huh? You can gear your hub as high as you like and I've no problem with that. Indeed, my own three speed is set up for fenland cruising so it's capable of fairly high speeds when I'm with a group that can do that, but the group I mostly tour with is more about going places and sightseeing, rather than going fast and watching back wheels.

A three speed isn't like having three adjacent derailleur gears on most bikes, and comparing replacing only the derailleur to replacing a hub is a bit apples-and-oranges. How much for the cassette, freewheel and chainrings too?

 

[outlash]

My apologies, the sneery attitude you appear to give off in the post I quoted must be something I mis-read.

If a hub gear breaks down, you have to buy a new hub or at least, get it repaired (if that's possible). If your child has to get the whole drivetrain replaced then either they're clocking up a lot of miles (how many do that by the time they grow out of the bike?), or they've had a major off and I'd hazard a guess the bike (and possibly the child) isn't in great condition. I'll stick my neck out and say either of these scenarios don't happen too often.

 

[enas]

Another thing to take into account is cost.[...]
Why not email Isla & Frog and ask why they don't have a hub gear option?

I've actually done that, so the wisest thing should to wait for their answer if they answer. But it's much funnier (well for me at least) to make some wild guesses.

The 24 inch Pinnacle Aspen's go for £260 and £280 respectively for the 7 speed derailleur and 5 speed hub gear, so that's only a £20 premium (and BTW the hub gear is currently on sale at £252). And that's for a 5 speed Sturmey Archer, not a cheap 3 speed Nexus. A quick Google search found me a full Sturmey Archer kit (hub+cog+shifter+cable+some more bits) for £80 retail price. A somewhat comparable kit (just hub and shifter) for a nexus 3 comes at £52, so that gives some idea of the price difference. Another comparison, this wheel built with a Nexus 3, comes at £56. This doesn't include the shifter, but it includes the rim (and I assume a better than found on Islabikes or Frogs) and a coaster brake. Keeping in mind that those are retail prices and not OEM, this could very well all what's in the £20 price difference between the Pinnacle Aspen's above.

The price difference you give for changing the derailleur is not quite relevant, since you're not comparing like with like. You have to factor in the cost of the hub and the cassette too, as mjray said. If I'm less lazy/more bored, I will try to estimate the price of derailleur+hub+cassette versus hub gear.

But a better point is that with hub gears you wouldn't have had to replace anything, since nothing would have broken You made precisely my point about derailleurs breaking more easily on kids bikes.

 

[enas]

If a hub gear breaks down, you have to buy a new hub or at least, get it repaired (if that's possible). If your child has to get the whole drivetrain replaced then[...]

Oops I missed this post. I think you misunderstood each other. I understood, and I believe so did mjray, that your point was to say that derailleurs are cheaper than hub gears in general. They are of course, but you'll have to factor in the full kit to make a comparison. As for replacing parts, quite simply a Nexus 3 will never break down, realistically, so here it's £8.50 against £0 in favour of the Nexus 3.

 

[mjr]

Repairing a Sturmey Archer hub is usually a case of cheap replacement parts and some fiddly extraction/reassembly, but they are very solid things anyway. Repairing a Shimano hub does appear to be "junk whole thing" offer, which does worry me, but the current ones have a good reliability record.

I'm sorry if it comes across oddly but I get rather tired of a few old legends about hub gears, freewheeling or pedals recirculating and probably write shorter replies than I should sometimes. I'm not one of those suggesting cycling should be slow or that we ought to have to give way to everyone, though: it needs to be fast and fair to be competitive transport IMO.

 

[enas]

I got a reply from Islabikes!

They gave me their reasons for not offering hub gears. I hope they don't mind if I reproduce some of them here. First there's weight, and apparently its position in the rear wheel not being suitable. That's one I haven't thought about, and I actually don't quite get it, if someone can enlighten me? Then there's cost: cheap ones are not satisfactory enough, then they become too expensive. Then there's some other reasons which for me boil down to hub gears not being popular with the British market (lack of familiarity, lack of available parts and skills in most bike shops, etc.).

I can sympathise with some of the technical arguments, but I get the feeling the main reason is that they have done their homework and decided there's no market for them, which is fair enough, obviously.

Back to my own question, the more I think about it, the more I feel the Pinnacle 5 speed is actually really nice. It obtained a nice review from road.cc. It's a 24 inch so that means it's a long term plan, so until then, there might be other models or I might have changed my mind completely