I am giving in.

[Joey Shabadoo]

I notice that nobody mentions hydrogen cars anymore. I wonder if we are all being brainwashed in thinking electric? Hydrogen produces only water and has the same range as conventional cars so why is it being shelved?

Some answers here - https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-n...ogen-fuel-cell-do-hydrogen-cars-have-a-future

 

[Deleted member 26715]

$69 difference per charge/tankful... but the Tesla costs A$200k vs a conventional car is around A$30-50k... takes 50yrs+ to breakeven - somebody check my math, I can't get the sums to work, can you?

I think the issue is bigger than personal cost now, at some point we are all going to take the hit. I'm going to look at a Renault Zoe tomorrow for a test drive, once I've done that I like you need to do the maths.

 

[tamiya]

I notice that nobody mentions hydrogen cars anymore. I wonder if we are all being brainwashed in thinking electric? Hydrogen produces only water and has the same range as conventional cars so why is it being shelved?

I did a spell in Mech Eng back when they were studying hydrogen internal combustion - our lab even had a testmule shaped like a Ford(Mercury) Capri

Problem with hydrogen is that it's still essentially reliant upon electricity, plus there's big issues with production/transport/distribution. It's not super efficient when everything needs thick heavy high pressure tanks.

Compared to say a SuperCharger station, heck you can build those anywhere! Side of a wall in the city or even middle of nowhere next to a bank of solar cells & battery storage.

 

[Slow But Determined]

May I ask... all of you fellas looking at battery cars - do you have solar panels & battery at home or are you buying power off the national grid?

Looked at our latest household bill & we're paying about A$0.30/kWh.

A Tesla can accumulate ~90kWh so let's say A$27 per full charge.
I'm told they run at about 300/Wh so that's about 300 miles worth (=500km)

My antiquated gasguzzler will probably slurp 60-90L for 500km doing my usual around town circuit. (Yeah I'm sure a modern hybrid or fancy buzzbox + light right foot can halve that... but that's another topic altogether.) Unleaded has gone to A$1.60/L so 60L will cost $96.

$69 difference per charge/tankful... but the Tesla costs A$200k vs a conventional car is around A$30-50k... takes 50yrs+ to breakeven - somebody check my math, I can't get the sums to work, can you?

Yes the initial cost of a decent electric vehicle means that at the beginning they will be a rich man's toy.

But in time I expect like anything they will come down. I recall paying £1300 for my first PC which didn't do anything like what a £300 machine will do now.

I expect as the ratio between internal combustion and electric cars starts to swing towards electric they will become more accessible to all.

I suppose the big question is what will be powering the power stations that will be generating all this extra usage?

 

[tamiya]

I suppose the big question is what will be powering the power stations that will be generating all this extra usage?

If you seriously want to know... Downunder today our grid ain't even coping with peak demands for aircon usage when weather gets warm without browning out & load shedding.

Big talk about renewables, huge investments into windmills & solar arrays... but end of the day if wind ain't blowing or it's nighttime or cloudy you just won't get your planned kWs. (Visited a windfarm last week... wind dropped below 3m/s, turbines didn't move... so the farm turned on their motors & spent 500Wh to spin the blades just for show... haha I took a sneak peek at their control screens)

If you swap all the petrol & diesel fleet to say Testa cars & trucks all wanting to chargeup at night... to rely on solar you'll need a ton of battery storage. Batteries don't come cheap, finite lifespan & not particularly green clean to make/dispose.

Currently Oz relies on brown coal... plenty about, but greenie nightmare. Current plants are getting long in tooth, 20-40yrs old... foreign owner investors reluctant to spend $$$ upgrading or rebuilding... they'd rather suck every last cent in returns then scrap it. If there's $$$ supposedly there's new tech from Japan to burn coal cleanly... but yeah, coal hard sell to investors vs green concerns.

 

[Slow But Determined]

Big talk about renewables, huge investments into windmills & solar arrays... but end of the day if wind ain't blowing or it's nighttime or cloudy you just won't get your planned kWs. (Visited a windfarm last week... wind dropped below 3m/s, turbines didn't move... so the farm turned on their motors & spent 500Wh to spin the blades just for show... haha I took a sneak peek at their control screens)
.

I wish the wind would drop like that on my daily bike ride!!!

 

[tamiya]

I wish the wind would drop like that on my daily bike ride!!!

tell me about it! I'm in Melbourne, the wind gets fierce... sometimes headwind hits so hard it's not just slowdown but I gotta stop & grab the brakes to avoid getting blown backwards

yet I drive 2hrs outstation to visit a windfarm up on a windy hillside... and there's barely a breeze to rustle the grass

 

[BrumJim]

Just gone electric. Sold by diesel Mercedes-Benz A-Class, and I have a Renault Zoe. 2017 ZE4.0

No more VED for me!

 

[MontyVeda]

Great idea until you need to go a distance..

Until they sort charging I'm going to carry on with derv

you just need to plan for your journey. My mate's electric has a range of around 70 miles*, when he drives up to see his dad (about 100 miles), he has to stop for half an hour to charge.

*70 miles @ 55mph... at 70mph the range reduces so much so he'll have to stop and recharge twice, which means 70mph is a very noticeable false economy

 

[Drago]

Ive always liked the idea of a Twizy. Shortish range personal transport, bare bones basics with no fripperies, but that stupid battery lease deal is a nightmare - the 45 quid a month lease would've bought me twice as much fuel as I would have bought in normal motoring. Damn them to Hades!

 

[DRM]

you just need to plan for your journey. My mate's electric has a range of around 70 miles*, when he drives up to see his dad (about 100 miles), he has to stop for half an hour to charge.

*70 miles @ 55mph... at 70mph the range reduces so much so he'll have to stop and recharge twice, which means 70mph is a very noticeable false economy

So in other words it’s useless, I’ve been in a courtesy car this week as the van is kaput, again, in seven days I’ve put 860 miles on it, the majority of which has been on the motorway at 70 mph, it would have spent more time charging then being driven, I’ve filled up twice with petrol, at 55 mph I wouldn’t get any jobs done.

 

[Beebo]

Just gone electric. Sold by diesel Mercedes-Benz A-Class, and I have a Renault Zoe. 2017 ZE4.0

No more VED for me!

I drive a C1 for work. It’s VER exempted and very frugal on fuel. I’ve driven it to Kent to wales and back in a day. It would be impossible in an electric car.
any client meeting over 35 miles away would be useless.

 

[Beebo]

you just need to plan for your journey. My mate's electric has a range of around 70 miles*, when he drives up to see his dad (about 100 miles), he has to stop for half an hour to charge.

*70 miles @ 55mph... at 70mph the range reduces so much so he'll have to stop and recharge twice, which means 70mph is a very noticeable false economy

So every time he goes to his dads house he gets free fuel from his dad.
I’d be annoyed if people turned up at my house and expected free electric top ups. imagine turning up and asking for a Gerry can of unleaded.

 

[Landsurfer]

That calm day .. the one where the sun shines ..... when all your green savings go into the bin ... as the fossil fuelled power stations, Gas, Diesel, Bio Mass ..... burst into life ..... again .....and again, and again ...
Where does the power come for your " powered by Emperors New Clothes" vehicles ......
Drax last month .... anti-cyclone .... it's a UK thing .....
The roar of the Diesel gensets powering up can be heard all over Rotherham and Sheffield on those windless mornings .... those many windless mornings ..................... and the smell .........and the particulates .........

 

[cougie uk]

So in other words it’s useless, I’ve been in a courtesy car this week as the van is kaput, again, in seven days I’ve put 860 miles on it, the majority of which has been on the motorway at 70 mph, it would have spent more time charging then being driven, I’ve filled up twice with petrol, at 55 mph I wouldn’t get any jobs done.

Seven days 860 miles - so 130 miles a day. My car has a range of 160 miles so I wouldn't need to stop for petrol.

Electric vehicles will work for most people but they need to change their mindset.