I have brown shorts....anyone got any Vanish?

[thomas]

I'm just uploading a short clip that might be useful.

You can see that I go over to the outside, which avoids conflict with the left hand turn lane. Then when past the lane I do a head check to pull across so I can turn off. You can hear me as soon as this is happening say something like "what the hell" under my breath. At this point, even if I had wanted to, I could not have gotten back across due to the positioning of the guys car and due to just how close he was to me.

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tdz1ux1ozyg

Far too long in primary on "Kett's incline" - I've never had a problem there before, and often with cars parked as in the video. Looks like you came off Mousehold a bit too quickly as well!

I have to say, that roundabout and that general area of Norwich is pretty dodgy for quality of driving, but I've only really experienced problems coming from Riverside onto that RAB.

Yep, I'm happy to admit too long in primary. Knew that before posting....doesn't excuse the driver at all though. There were sensible reasons behind staying in primary which would have been useful if things had played out differently.

I wouldn't say I came down too fast...I know that that bend is normally backed up around the corner and it's near impossible to actually get out of the roundabout without stopping to check as you can't see traffic from the right. Maybe just because the camera was wobbling a bit?

I've never, ever had any problems, or even mild inconveniences on that roundabout and I've done it plenty of times. Just one of those things I guess. I'm always paranoid someone will pull out from Riverside, but *touch wood*.....

 

[GrasB]

lee, from my eye looking at his video he doesn't even cross the centre of the lane before the driver has sounded his horn. As for his road position that's a fairly conservative & defensive position to cross a roundabout with those lane directions as you are more valuable to left hand swipes as you cut from the centre to the outside lane. The other thing is you really want to be transitioning from the inside to the outside lane in the spaces between the slip roads to try & reduce confusion to traffic pulling on/off the roundabout. In short thomas' road positioning is exactly what I'd expect a vehicle to do when navigating a roundabout with the road markings shown.

 

[Sh4rkyBloke]

I can kind of see where Lee is coming from... although the left hand lane say it is for left turning traffic, it clearly seems to go round the roundabout too (i.e. not blocked after the left turn to force traffic in that lane only to the left) and would be the "normal" choice for someone going straight on. It's badly laid out, basically.

 

[thomas]

If your position was correct then how could a car have the potential to undertake you?

Because unlike a car, I'm only 6 foot tall...not 6 feet wide as well!

 

[GrasB]

lee you seem to want to ignore that the road user needs to take a transition line, unfortunately you have to do that, as a vulnerable road user you want to make that transition later so that you're like to get hit by someone who is approaching from the left hand road. Especially given how wide the mouth of the exit is, it's encouraging you to take that latter more defensive line.

 

[thomas]

Er, no - try again. The road is much wider then you pretty much everywhere you go on a bike and I don't think car drivers can undertake you then.

So what is different now?

Lee, I'm pretty sure whatever I say you'll find an argument with it.

Ultimately, road position can't stop everything, especially when someone is addiment on getting past. Perhaps in the future I will stay slightly more to the left of the "straight over" lane, past the left junction to make it easier to go straight on.

Your suggestion of just going around the roundabout from the left turn lane is obviously very wrong, and your idea of the correct route for this roundabout isn't far off that either.

The car didn't undertake, so I can't be doing it all wrong.

 

[HLaB]

I wasn't there and I don't know the rab in question but I think after the left turn only lane where thomas was originally, I'd have gradually filtered to the outside lane in order to leave the rab instead of staying in the centre lane as long.

 

[GrasB]

No I don't, that's what a look over the left shoulder is for before entering onto the rab.

Then you're looking WAY to early & also ignoring another set of issues developing on your RIGHT! The transition from inside to outside should be happening in the dead space between the exit & entrance slips... this is where the rider starts to move but is prevented from due to the motorist behind.

Oh & from my experience is you'll confuse the hell out of people on the left hand lane if you cut across to early because they think you'll exit on the first exit which is a receipt for mayhem.

 

[thomas]

Okay...I'll be going for a ride on Wednesday. Everyone open my attachment in paint, get a red marker and plan out a route (or two) across the roundabout.

I'll cycle them and share the video...which will no doubt be blooming boring

Any excuse to get out of a bit of coursework

 

[thomas]

Lee, do you think the driver was correct in trying to undertake me on the roundabout?

 

[GrasB]

So the green line shows the line road users are expecting people to take & do take, this the correct one given the road markings coming onto the roundabout. The yellow one gives the bail out if a road user miss-reads your intentions about going straight on. The red line is your proposed line confuses the hell out of motorists on your near side, they're probably thinking you're trying to go round the outside if you pull in sharply there. puts you straight across an unused dirty road space (you can see the dust build up on the road!) & gives you no where to go if someone has miss-read your intentions due to you entering the roundabout from the right hand lane as directed.

Oh that picture is really telling as it does show you exactly where motorists gave been going on the roundabout due to the dust sweeping effect of many vehicles taking the same line/

 

[HLaB]

Id agree with your Green line GrasB; ignoring the crap on the red line it sets you up for a speeding driver from the south, ironically this is where a lot of cycle lanes are.

 

[thomas]

View attachment 5889

Black is your line, red is when you look and in what direction, please note the title of the picture for future reference.

Your route would only have moved the conflict. Taking that route would actually open me up to more conflict at your longest red line.

Conflict both with other vehicles going straight on and potentially vehicles coming from the left, or people trying to save a few seconds by going straight in the left hand lane.

I've attached my picture...and you can note the title too.

It's the same as what HLaB & GrasB agree with.

@HLaB: That's actually my only worry with this roundabout is someone speeding from the junction at the south. Always try to get eye contact there.

 

[thomas]

No it don't, if I'm going left then I wouldn't be in the lane going straight on would I?

And there is no pulling in sharply at all, merely riding into your own (and correct) lane for going straight on.

From a first hand opinion, and I'm not just saying this because I disagree with you, but I think it would be reasonably sharp, especially as the roundabout is on a slant. I've never, ever seen anyone take the roundabout your way (as others have mentioned with the dust). If I had the guy behind would no doubt have just tried to get past the other side of me.

 

[GrasB]

Pulling from the inside of the roundabout to the outside means you're tracking the line of traffic turning left, this is a radical lane position change effectively crossing to the outer lane of the roundabout at around 45 degrees when seen from the view of someone turning left! Your observation skills also need a bit of work as moving over dirty road space is a good indication that it's seldom use & as such will put you in an unexpected position on the road.