Idiots on bikes

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See "foggy" conditions or heavy rain, it would be great fun wouldn't it on the motorways if nobody used their lights in these conditions?

Missing again the point that despite all your faith in the visibility of cars the worst accidents happen in these conditions because once again the motorists are speeding an driving inappropriately

The lights are a red herring
 
Forget hi viz, cars and other vehicles put on their lights when conditions dictate (if they have sensible drivers or auto sensor lights). Whatever you take on the road should be lit if conditions require it, IMO.

Which brings us back to the mahoosive horses on Hungerford Common

Should they have lights on in foggy conditions?
 

Mugshot

Cracking a solo.
See "foggy" conditions or heavy rain, it would be great fun wouldn't it on the motorways if nobody used their lights in these conditions?
According to the OP the cyclist wasn't on a motorway or riding in heavy rain or fog, he was riding in daylight.

Guy on a bike just now, all black gear, no lighting whatsoever, every other road user has lights of some discription on (as they are needed)........bellend.
You had seen the cyclist and managed not to knock him over also, at least up to that point, every other road user had too. Yet every other road user was using lights, it doesn't appear that they were using them to help themselves see where they were going so it must have been in an effort to make themselves more visible to others. But why is that? If we can see the cyclist and the cars are more visible because;
I dunno, size? Because they are bigger?
why do they feel the need to have lights on when they do not appear to be necessary for the conditions. I don't think it's as a courtesy to other road users I think it's because too many people can't be trusted to drive in a safe and attentive manner and surely that is what needs addressing.

Like you I also have a van, it's a long wheel base high top Transit, it's a pretty big vehicle much bigger than a car and far far bigger than a bicycle. It should be super visible, yet the amount of people that pull out on me is staggering. It's big and it's heavy and in a collision with a car there's only likely to be one winner but that doesn't seem to stop them.

Here's a picture of my old van

20130717_143222.jpg


And here's a picture of the 4x4 hat smashed into the back of me

20130717_143154.jpg


I had stopped at a temporary traffic control as the council were cutting the grass. There were warning signs out, council vehicles with flashing lights, me in a resonable sized van, perfect visibility and the driver had about half a mile of clear road to see me. It is fortunate in some respects that it was me he hit, the fact is that he would have hit whatever was in front of him and had it been most other vehicles the outcome could have been very very different.
The officer that attended told me that the driver would likely be sent on a driver awareness course. I had to fight this for months I had arguments with the officer and arguments with his sergeant about what they were proposing to do. Eventually, following my letters to the senior decision maker in police hq the guy got taken to court. He was found guilty of driving without due care, got 6 points on his licence and various fines. The photos of the vehicles were mine because the attending officer didn't take any, it was me that went back the next day and measured the skid marks because the attending officer hadn't and it was me that measured out and took photographs showing the amount of clear road the driver of the 4x4 would have had before he hit me because again the attending officer couldn't be bothered.

It should not be necessary for cars to run lights in the daytime, it should not be necessary for chickens and trees to have hi-viz, it should not be necessary for cyclists to have their lights on in all conditions, and if they have they should be wearing bright colours too and if they are they should have hi-viz and they should have reflectives and they should have a helmet and more than likely they should be on the cycle path, and the one that makes me weep, in no circumstances should it ever be necessary so see little trains of yellow children trotting along the pavement to the pool or the Christmas concert or wherever.
The issue generally is not the visibility of an item it is the inattentiveness of drivers and the lack of desire to sufficiently punish those that transgress. It is this which needs to be addressed.
 

benb

Evidence based cyclist
Location
Epsom
This was never a question, as it wasn't dark, it was a really very dull start to the day, just after sunrise (although the sun was obscured by clouds) many posters have said that lights or bright colourful clothes were not necessary, some of us on here disagree with that, this is the crux of the issue.

My reply was to @User9609 who claimed that people had said it was fine to cycle at night without lights.
Unsurprisingly, he failed to back that up.
 

benb

Evidence based cyclist
Location
Epsom
[QUOTE 4047211, member: 9609"]

@benb I have explained that a number of times now, it is the underlying theme of the thread.[/QUOTE]

No, there has not been the slightest suggestion that lights at night are unnecessary, which is what you claimed.
 

Mugshot

Cracking a solo.
[QUOTE 4047211, member: 9609"]@Mugshot used to drive an enormous lorry and some folk struggle to see those too, but that has nothing whatsoever to do with making an effort to get yourself seen when out on a bike - it is really useful for people who are trying to drive properly, and you are still more likely to be observed by those that are not.[/QUOTE]
Having used up a fair chunk of the internet with my last post I'm not sure what else I can say, let's try a more concise version.

If people look, they will see.
 

Dan B

Disengaged member
But a oedestrian does not have a right to walk in front of traffic to make them stop. When on the road they have priority and everyone shoukd stop. But I can't just walk across the road in front of traffic.
While it's debatable whether that is the case or should be the case (and I can think of some streets where it is common practice and others where it should be), from the cyclist's point of view my moral responsibility is to not run into them, not just to provide appropriate lighting for the collision when I do. As the party with more momentum I should bear the greater share of responsibilty

(Confession: I almost hit a pedestrian the other day while skating at night in a bus lane because I had turned round to look at an unlit car in the adjacent lane. A lesson was learnt)
 

subaqua

What’s the point
Location
Leytonstone
Having used up a fair chunk of the internet with my last post I'm not sure what else I can say, let's try a more concise version.

If people look, they will see.
not entirely true

http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-pilot-teach-cyclists/
 
OP
OP
Justinslow

Justinslow

Lovely jubbly
Location
Suffolk
According to the OP the cyclist wasn't on a motorway or riding in heavy rain or fog, he was riding in daylight.


You had seen the cyclist and managed not to knock him over also, at least up to that point, every other road user had too. Yet every other road user was using lights, it doesn't appear that they were using them to help themselves see where they were going so it must have been in an effort to make themselves more visible to others. But why is that? If we can see the cyclist and the cars are more visible because;

why do they feel the need to have lights on when they do not appear to be necessary for the conditions. I don't think it's as a courtesy to other road users I think it's because too many people can't be trusted to drive in a safe and attentive manner and surely that is what needs addressing.

Like you I also have a van, it's a long wheel base high top Transit, it's a pretty big vehicle much bigger than a car and far far bigger than a bicycle. It should be super visible, yet the amount of people that pull out on me is staggering. It's big and it's heavy and in a collision with a car there's only likely to be one winner but that doesn't seem to stop them.

Here's a picture of my old van

View attachment 112227

And here's a picture of the 4x4 hat smashed into the back of me

View attachment 112228

I had stopped at a temporary traffic control as the council were cutting the grass. There were warning signs out, council vehicles with flashing lights, me in a resonable sized van, perfect visibility and the driver had about half a mile of clear road to see me. It is fortunate in some respects that it was me he hit, the fact is that he would have hit whatever was in front of him and had it been most other vehicles the outcome could have been very very different.
The officer that attended told me that the driver would likely be sent on a driver awareness course. I had to fight this for months I had arguments with the officer and arguments with his sergeant about what they were proposing to do. Eventually, following my letters to the senior decision maker in police hq the guy got taken to court. He was found guilty of driving without due care, got 6 points on his licence and various fines. The photos of the vehicles were mine because the attending officer didn't take any, it was me that went back the next day and measured the skid marks because the attending officer hadn't and it was me that measured out and took photographs showing the amount of clear road the driver of the 4x4 would have had before he hit me because again the attending officer couldn't be bothered.

It should not be necessary for cars to run lights in the daytime, it should not be necessary for chickens and trees to have hi-viz, it should not be necessary for cyclists to have their lights on in all conditions, and if they have they should be wearing bright colours too and if they are they should have hi-viz and they should have reflectives and they should have a helmet and more than likely they should be on the cycle path, and the one that makes me weep, in no circumstances should it ever be necessary so see little trains of yellow children trotting along the pavement to the pool or the Christmas concert or wherever.
The issue generally is not the visibility of an item it is the inattentiveness of drivers and the lack of desire to sufficiently punish those that transgress. It is this which needs to be addressed.
Untill you remove the squidgy organic bit from behind the steering wheel/controls I don't see how you stop people from making mistakes, which your post basically boils down to. History has shown us that humans are not idiot proof, untill the day they are it would be wise to make yourself as visible as possible in poor light conditions especially if you are operating a small thin slow machine. This takes nothing away from the responsibility of the driver, as has been shown -even dumb inattentive cyclists rear end vehicles occasionally.
 
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