Idiots on bikes

[PMarkey]

Just spotted this which appears to show that if your not looking you won't see in all honesty

Paul

 

[ufkacbln]

To what - compulsory hi vis?
Just like the paranoia about compulsory helmet wearing?

So it goes something like this- shoot we mustn't do it because then it will be seen as normal, then it will be made law?

If you were actually aware of the definition of paranoia you would realise that you are titally wrong

The reality is that there are regular attempts to shift responsibility by enforcing helmets and hiviz

But you have been made aware of this on many occasions, so I suspect it will fail to sink in this time as well

 

[Pat "5mph"]

The slippery slope is the ongoing shift of responsibility from those who pose the danger onto those who are vulnerable to the danger being posed.

This very true, only there's no slippery slope.
Imo we are already at the bottom of the slope, when policemen advice (me) to wear hi-viz on a bright morning as "ah, but drivers won't see you".
It is accepted that drivers do not see cyclists. Why?
As many do, I hi-viz and light up like the proverbial Christmas tree, find myself doing it with less conviction more and more though, I'll rather avoid traffic, which, I know, is wrong in other ways.
Also, many times we are seen all right, only drivers still pull out on us or are too impatient to overtake safely.
@Justinslow the ninja cyclist is an extreme example, of course we must have lights after dark.

 

[mickle]

To what - compulsory hi vis?
Just like the paranoia about compulsory helmet wearing?

So it goes something like this- shoot we mustn't do it because then it will be seen as normal, then it will be made law?

Well, yes actually.

 

[boydj]

Lights at night are a given and reflectives are useful in unlit areas. But all the hi-viz in the world won't protect against the driver who's not paying attention. After being taken out twice when dressed as a model of the careful cyclist I realised that the best protection is to adopt road positioning to ensure as far as possible you are seen, regardless of what you are wearing.

 

[Apollonius]

the best protection is to adopt road positioning to ensure as far as possible you are seen, regardless of what you are wearing.

Absolutely. People see something moving across their field of vision far more easily than something static. Ride in a visible position.

I was thinking about this when driving the other day. On a miserable day in Wednesfield (probably the only sort available) I was surprised to see cars moving cautiously round something in the road. As I drove up, I noticed a truck had shed some bits of broken paving slab - about the size of a packet of cigarettes. All the same, visible in the rain and murk to car drivers. Maybe they represented a threat to the car? My point is they saw them clearly.

But a cyclist cannot be seen?

 

[Lonestar]

I hate these flashing lights,they are more of a distraction than good.
They almost have a magnetic pull to your eyes,thus not concentrating on anything else.

Cars are more of a distraction for me.

 

[mjr]

so in an attempt to take this daft thread off topic and into an area worth discussing... why is a set of bike lights that do not carry the BS kite mark 'insufficient' ?

They're not sufficient to count as legally lit simply because the law says it must carry the BS or equivalent European marking - unless it only has a 1-4Hz flash mode of 4cd or more, or if it's a headlight on a vintage bicycle. I don't think it entirely makes sense, but that is what is required to be legal and everything else is a matter of opinion (for example, I think flashing lights are daft because a motorist may glance when they're in the "off" phase).

Back in the days if D batteries and bulbs i had various sets of bike lights which all had a pretty little kite mark stamped on them... but gawd the lights were sh!te, especially after about 20 minutes when a rich tea biscuit would have been brighter.

Yeah, I've done my time grubbing along searching for the road with old D-cell lights and that's overstating it slightly but no, they weren't good. It's rather disappointing that lights now aren't absolutely perfect with the brighter LEDs, but they aren't.

I've never noticed a single kite mark on any of my LED bike lights, but they certainly seem to work a lot better than the old (pre-LED) ones. They may not have a kite mark but i can see in front of me and can be seen, for hours and hours rather than a mere 20-30 minutes... so what's so insufficient about them??? @mjray

Most commonly, the beam cut-off is too far above the brightest spot, so you have the awful choice of whether to aim it closer to your wheel than you really want, or to aim it where you want it and consequently dazzle oncoming road users, which is rather rude when it's a cyclist and inviting serious injury when it's a motorist.

There are a few lights with good lenses and no standard marking, but they seem depressingly rare. The cycling light market seems almost completely broken, with shops selling mostly awful lights marketed on meaningless lumen and Watt statistics, with most cyclists either not caring whether they're nasty to others or disagreeing that it is nasty to shine a light in others' eyes.

Does anyone know the costs involved in getting products tested to British Standards??? I can't see it being a free service.

It's £90 for the spec, so I doubt it's cheap, but it's a one-off product development cost. I suspect getting a German K marking may be cheaper and better-respected than our outdated standards.

IF drivers very definitely see cyclists dressed in black, riding black bikes, without lights - and give them a wide berth, how come do they decide to come so close to me, lit up like a ****ing Xmas tree, high-vis waistcoat/arm bands/ankle bands, and wheel lights?

Simples - I have lit myself up so that they can improve their aim! Sure, it's a tiny minority, but I do get pissed off when unlit ninja is given space, and I get the punishment pass.

You may be joking, but you're effectively peacocking, making it easy for motorists who aren't paying full attention to look at your wonderful plumage and, as I was told when learning, they steer where they stare!

I feel that good steady lights which you can see by and be seen by, ideally with a back light with a large illuminated surface that makes it easy for others to judge position and distance, plus the distinctive dancing pedal reflectors (for front/back) and wheel reflectors (for side) are sufficient. Any funny shaped clothing on top of the vehicle is a distraction. If they can't see the lights and reflectors, they probably aren't going to see anything you do and that's a different problem!

 

[Lonestar]

Funny saying that about pedal reflectors...Seen quite a few young cyclists recently only noticeable by their pedal reflectors lit up by my front lights.

I didn't do one much of a favour tonight at Bow...on his mobile dressed all in black/no lights,I was behind him and he pulled right and there was a bus behind us,didn't see him till late,probably didn't know he was in front of me.Hope the bus driver didn't get a fright.

 

[Dan B]

So what should I tell my kids?

You could start by telling them to look where they're driving and to ensure they can stop within the distance they can see to be clear

 

[mjr]

You could start by telling them to look where they're driving and to ensure they can stop within the distance they can see to be clear

And to wait until they've got a licence, unless it's on a private track

 

[mjr]

And you wonder why cyclists get a hard time with attitudes like that?

Do you mean attitudes like the pictured "buy and wear this ugly stuff with reflective surfaces unlike any vehicle else you're invisible" or like criticising the advertisers of such junk?

So to take it back to my children - should I tell them when out riding in dark conditions don't bother with lights and wear dark clothing?

Tell them to use lights if it's dark, but maybe also teach them how to tell if the sun is above the horizon or where to look up the time that happens, which is before 8am in Suffolk at the moment. Tell them the clothing is irrelevant if their bike is properly lit and reflectored and they should not listen to the bad motorists who say their friends will kill anyone who doesn't wear ugly clothes that identify them as non-motorists.

 

[Tin Pot]

Oh this has really cheered me up guys, thanks for joining the thread flya.

Do please refrain from "lowering yourself" to reasoned debate and rational thinking.

 

[earlestownflya]

Oh this has really cheered me up guys, thanks for joining the thread flya.

Do please refrain from "lowering yourself" to reasoned debate and rational thinking.

forget reasoned debate and rational thinking...common sense is all you need...that's where you're going wrong.

 

[earlestownflya]

Cool, but these things escalate badly and the thread will be locked down in seconds, an element of control is required in these discussions! Nice to know I'm not alone though........

i know...i got one shut down.....i'm not proud of my actions won't happen again.