Incident near Oval Tube this morning

[karlos_the_jackal]

As a newbie commuter this type of thing does make you think, but with large vehicles not had any issues, but i must say riding in london does put you in a very alert mode.
It was a bit weird on the ride back today was coming up the back of a cement mixer at a set of lights obvicyously decided not to go up as couldnt tell when lights had gone, did notice however a warning sign on the back of the mixer stating for cyclists not to go up the inside of this vehicle.

 

[CopperBrompton]

It really scares me how many cyclists go up the inside of trucks and buses, even when there are railings, high kerbs, etc.

Educating truck drivers is part of the solution, but the bigger one - from what I see in London - is educating cyclists.

 

[hackbike 666]

My tactics seem to vary with big vehicles depending on the scenario.

 

[simon_brooke]

Ah-hem. The casualty increase rate is the same as the cycling increase rate. It doen't make anyone safer by that measure. Luckily, deaths have dropped a bit this last year - good - but so what? Chance? Fluke? Or due to real action and modified behaviour?

What that does is allow town planners and the like to say "everything's fine here - deaths are dropping".

In countries where there are more cyclists on the roads - Holland and Denmark, for example - casualty rates per billion cyclist kilometers are much lower. Which isn't actually surprising - if motorists are used to the idea cyclists will be around, they'll look out for them.

So I think - honestly - real modified behaviour.

 

[summerdays]

I would say that you should almost always stick behind a lorry waiting at lights, unless you know the light sequence well, have seen them change to red and know that there is a good deal of room to get by.

I say that the fact that the percentage is more female is to do with them being more cautious in personality and therefore waiting over on the left hand side at a junction. If you are at the front of a queue at traffic lights (whether going left, straight on or right), you want to be in the centre of the correct lane. Actually even further back in the queue you want to be in the centre of the correct lane too.

 

[Bigtwin]

I

So I think - honestly - real modified behaviour.

Oh who's part?

There's certainly not been a jot of difference around here to driving, unless it's got worse. Cycle lanes are still a joke - going nowhere, disappearing at random, full of sunken drains etc.

Mebbe the increases are in "special areas" where particular LAs have done something cycling friendly and it's safer. Here for example, vast sections of the Downs Link have been mettled to make it easier to cycle on, instead of the old mud track. All of it off road, so you probably have more cyclist users who are relatively safe. On road however, things are still as poor as ever and probably worse, given Surrey's policy on road policing (bung some cameras up and call it job done).

 

[Maizie]

Educating truck drivers is part of the solution, but the bigger one - from what I see in London - is educating cyclists.

I agree entirely! There was a piece on the news a few months back, where they were giving out prism thingys for lorry drivers to put on their left hand window, so they could see if there were any cyclists hiding down there. My husband asked why I was sputtering and I said it was obviously a good thing to help the driver see, but the way the piece was being presented it made it very much the driver's responsibility to see the cyclist, and there was no hint that perhaps a cyclist should take some responsibility for their own safety around these big vehicles.
If I have a bus/HGV/etc near me in a queue, I wait behind it, not a chance that I'll try to go past it. If possible, I position myself so I can see the driver in one of the wing mirrors - so if the driver has previously seen me, and is looking out for me, I'm easy for him/her to spot and see that I'm out of the way when it is time to move again.

 

[magnatom]

I would say that you should almost always stick behind a lorry waiting at lights, unless you know the light sequence well, have seen them change to red and know that there is a good deal of room to get by.

I would change that slightly to 'never'. What is the point of going past the lorry at lights? Just to save a few seconds. Not worth it in my opinion. I've seen lorries start to move before lights have changed, I've seen light sequences changed, etc.

Impatience is a killer.

 

[Origamist]

It's probably more appropriate to discuss HGVs, mirrors, cycling best practice etc on this thread:

http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=36214

 

[scouserinlondon]

Well I was even more cautious than normal today, and on the odd occasion where I may have had a think about weaving through stationary traffic I didn't. On the roadworks section of the A3 near Kennington I rode in the middle of the lane while cyclists whizzed down the left side next to the railings and slow moving busses. The net effect of my caution. My journey to work took exactly the same amount of time.

 

[magnatom]

It's probably more appropriate to discuss HGVs, mirrors, cycling best practice etc on this thread:

http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=36214

Actually I think this is a good place to discuss it. Ok we don't know the full details of this unfortunate incident, but if this discussion makes just one person think a little more carefully about how they cycle around HGVs etc then at least something positive has come of her death.

 

[scouserinlondon]

I'm rather surprised that this incident hasn't had any local news coverage. Surely the tragic death of a cyclist would make the evening bulletin, but it didn't seem to.

 

[Origamist]

Fatal road traffic collisions often do not make the television news - it's simply not deemed newsworthy enough.

I suspect more details will follow in the Evening Standard, South London Press etc.

 

[Crankarm]

I've been known to position myself on the nearside rear corner of a bus or HGV so I can observe the space disappearing in front and prevent other cyclists from entering it becoming a tarmac pancake, but I have been pushed aside and sworn at by other impatient cyclists to get down the inside . These arrogant and selfish cyclists I have no time for as most HGV and bus drivers are really careful and it must be a nightmare trying to drive these big vehicles in towns and cities with cycles flying every which way around them plus all the other distractions they have to contend with. I'm not ignoring the fact that a small proportion of these drivers are also headcase dangerous loons but most are just trying to drive safely. Most of these ignorant, arrogant and selfish cyclists who put themsleves in these dangerous situations I don't care about if they get splatted through their own stupidity. It is the sad consequences they cause that frightens me, the drivers of the vehicles, families and friends of the deceased who won't have some one coming home and any witnesses who happen to see such a distressing scene. So I try to prevent these situations arising in the first place with limited success. There is no indication that the instant cyclist was one of the ones I describe now, but what is clear all drivers need more cyclist awareness training and many cyclists need training in how to negotiate and not to pass large road vehicles in close proximity. Cyclists I believe have to start taking responsibilty for their own safety and actions . It must be devastating for a commercial driver to run over anyone let alone a cyclist. I believe 98% of them have no intention of doing so. Many cyclists need to think a lot smarter from what I have seen. One is a long time dead.

 

[hackbike 666]

^^This should be in soapbox^^