Incident near Oval Tube this morning

[CopperBrompton]

What makes the news is often rather random. The same event can be front-page news or a footnote, depending on what else is going on, what the editor is interested in at the time, etc.

 

[summerdays]

I would change that slightly to 'never'. What is the point of going past the lorry at lights? Just to save a few seconds. Not worth it in my opinion. I've seen lorries start to move before lights have changed, I've seen light sequences changed, etc.

Impatience is a killer.

I couldn't write never as I know I sometimes do go to the front past lorries waiting - especially at the nearest set of lights to my house that I know really well. I know how to tell when they are going to change - they are linked to the next set up which I can see from 100 meters back in the queue - and if you watch the green pedestrian phase turn to red then I know that the lights I'm at will change in about 20 seconds after that. Plus I filter on the right. The reason for filtering forward - well then I don't have to wait for 2 light sequences to get out of the side road. Though I note that as of last month that the sequence has been changed to give a longer phase to the side road.

 

[dellzeqq]

It really scares me how many cyclists go up the inside of trucks and buses, even when there are railings, high kerbs, etc.

Educating truck drivers is part of the solution, but the bigger one - from what I see in London - is educating cyclists.

I'm forced, however reluctantly, to agree. And my strong impression is that women are more likely to go on the left side than men. And there have been times when I've heard one coming up left of me, intent on going on the left side of the truck ahead of me, and I've turned round and said 'please don't do that - it's the most dangerous thing you can do on a bike'. Which, in London at any rate, it is.

My surmise, and it really is no more than that, is that less athletic cyclists - and a high proportion of London's women cyclists fall within this category - look for the advantage of being at the front at traffic lights, and don't have the confidence to stick in the centre of the lane.

Let's not lose sight of the really startling thing, though. Construction traffic is the big killer - and that is because people who drive tipper lorries and skip lorries and the like are, by and large, poor drivers. That the HSE is not interested in the deaths caused by construction traffic, while they maunder on about every little concern on building sites (without any discernible effect) is pathetic.

 

[scouserinlondon]

My surmise, and it really is no more than that, is that less athletic cyclists - and a high proportion of London's women cyclists fall within this category - look for the advantage of being at the front at traffic lights, and don't have the confidence to stick in the centre of the lane.

I think that many in-experienced london cyclists (of which I am one), think that the 'safety' afforded by being in the cycle box at the front of the junction makes Kamikaze filtering okay, I so many people hurtling down the left of the traffic on the approach to lights. Admittedly I'll filter through slow moving traffic but it's at a very slow pace. I tend to prefer overtaking on the outside too, although I give HGV and busses a bloody wide berth.

 

[MacB]

Let's not lose sight of the really startling thing, though. Construction traffic is the big killer - and that is because people who drive tipper lorries and skip lorries and the like are, by and large, poor drivers. That the HSE is not interested in the deaths caused by construction traffic, while they maunder on about every little concern on building sites (without any discernible effect) is pathetic.

Good point, my only incidents have been related to vehicles from this arena. I know some cyclists foolishly go up the inside but, when I was clipped by a dumper lorry, it was due to a close overtake. Having ridden the stretch of road many times since, it is now an even more unbelievable manouver. Most cars will not attempt an overtake at the point this lorry did.

 

[CopperBrompton]

Yes, skip lorries are the worst in my experience too.

If it's really the case that HSE lose all interest in construction traffic once it leaves the building-site, that needs to be fixed. For example, practices like paying drivers per completed run rather than per hour are bound to encourage stupid overtakes.

 

[dellzeqq]

Yes, skip lorries are the worst in my experience too.

If it's really the case that HSE lose all interest in construction traffic once it leaves the building-site, that needs to be fixed. For example, practices like paying drivers per completed run rather than per hour are bound to encourage stupid overtakes.

It's all fixable, but the HSE doesn't want to know, and main contractors don't want to know because the HSE doesn't want to know, and designers, who do the drawings that call for the transport of spoil really don't want to know, and even CML, who wrote the transport plan for the Olympics really didn't want to know, despite being pressed by yrs truly and Tom Bogdanovich of the LCC.

Cue letter to Sadiq Khan....

 

[scouserinlondon]

Isn't the location of the accident yesterday on the proposed 'superhighway' route. I think that both the Oval and Stockwell junctions are pretty lairy places.

My approach at Stockwell is to get into right hand lane on the stretch leading up to the tube station and then either safely filter forward or sit in primary for the short burst up to the A3 right fork. At Kennington I tend to just sit tight in the lane of traffic.

 

[dellzeqq]

Isn't the location of the accident yesterday on the proposed 'superhighway' route. I think that both the Oval and Stockwell junctions are pretty lairy places.

yes

My approach at Stockwell is to get into right hand lane on the stretch leading up to the tube station and then either safely filter forward or sit in primary for the short burst up to the A3 right fork. At Kennington I tend to just sit tight in the lane of traffic.

interesting. If I'm on my own I can do what I want, but if I'm escorting the Babe then we cross the lights at Stockwell in the second lane with me riding facing back, signalling right, and giving the following vehicle the dellzeqq stare from which few recover. At Kennington the trick is to stay in the centre of the nearside lane as the lane slants left - this involves rapping the side of a car with my knuckles if it starts to squeeze in from the right. We head for Kennington Road, not the Elephant, and I accept that heading for the Elephant is altogether more demanding.

Coming south down Kennington Road and turning right for Clapham Road we used to stay in the left lane until after the right turn and then attempt to go two lanes to the right, me signalling, looking back, staring and so on. There have been times when we've thought better of it and ended up in Brixton! Now we go in the right hand lane at the right turn and I go behind the Babe (always a pleasure) giving it large to the vehicle behind - and, thus far, it's worked. But it's no fun.

 

[MacB]

But it's no fun.

that sums up my riding in London experience pretty well. I get home from my commute and feel pretty good, if a little tired. Cycle across London and I'm wound up like a spring. I'm sure this eases with experience but can't ever imagine it being a relaxing event.

 

[CopperBrompton]

I don't know that it's ever relaxing, but I enjoy 95% of cycling in London. The Elephant & Castle and Marble Arch would be definite exceptions, though.

 

[trsleigh]

Let's not lose sight of the really startling thing, though. Construction traffic is the big killer - and that is because people who drive tipper lorries and skip lorries and the like are, by and large, poor drivers. That the HSE is not interested in the deaths caused by construction traffic, while they maunder on about every little concern on building sites (without any discernible effect) is pathetic.

Too right, a few years ago when there was some building work going on just off Constitution Hill, near Hyde Park Corner. I was coming left off Hyde Park Corner into Constitution Hill, probably at least 20mph, a wide two lane road, plenty of room when I was overtaken by a large tipper lorry indicating left in the right hand lane. I assumed he had not yet cancelled his indicator when holy crap, he turned left right in front of me. Another metre or so and that would have been it.

 

[scouserinlondon]

yes

We head for Kennington Road, not the Elephant, and I accept that heading for the Elephant is altogether more demanding.

Coming south down Kennington Road and turning right for Clapham Road we used to stay in the left lane until after the right turn and then attempt to go two lanes to the right, me signalling, looking back, staring and so on. There have been times when we've thought better of it and ended up in Brixton! Now we go in the right hand lane at the right turn and I go behind the Babe (always a pleasure) giving it large to the vehicle behind - and, thus far, it's worked. But it's no fun.

Yeah, northbound I go onto the A23 and head for Waterloo, Idon't ever want to negotiate the elephant.

On the way home I'm the same, get across to the right down Kennington road and move over towards the lights. LIke you I ended up getting squeezed down the A23 a couple of times, Brixton is NEVER fun.

 

[Two mile commute]

Details here.

 

[dellzeqq]

I confess I love cycling in London on my own. I find escorting the Babe taxing and joyful at one and the same time.

Taxing because she is not a strong cyclist, and my perception is that strong cyclists are at less risk than weaker cyclists. I may be wrong in this.

(Joyful because she is the love of my life, and any endeavour we share is a delight.)