Increase in seizures of illegal ebikes

[ade towell]

West Yorkshire Police, Leeds City
View attachment 792526

Same thing happened in Nottingham city centre last week, 7 bikes seized here too

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Same thing happened in Nottingham city centre last week, 7 bikes seized here too

I do wonder how they stop them - most round here are either
a) behaving perfectly properly and no risk - but it is still a moped
b) the general k***heads that wouldn't stop for anything and are the ones causing the problems

still - if it gets the message out then that is good

but they do need to stop the importers

 

[ade towell]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp3x2e4qzwlo

In Nottingham they said...

A total of seven bikes were confiscated by Nottinghamshire Police during the operation on 3 November.

Officers targeted areas including Trinity Square, Milton Street, Hockley, and Old Market Square in response to reports of bikes speeding on pavements and failing to stop at traffic lights.

The force said the majority of the bikes, which had been illegally modified, were taken from food delivery riders.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp3x2e4qzwlo

In Nottingham they said...

A total of seven bikes were confiscated by Nottinghamshire Police during the operation on 3 November.

Officers targeted areas including Trinity Square, Milton Street, Hockley, and Old Market Square in response to reports of bikes speeding on pavements and failing to stop at traffic lights.

The force said the majority of the bikes, which had been illegally modified, were taken from food delivery riders.

No shock there!

I do wonder why I see so few around here

they are around but not many of them
and as there is a high density of housing here you would think they were a natural thing for the delivery people to look at?

maybe the council has done something that worked??

 

[Electric_Andy]

I'd be interested to hear eveyone's view on what would happen if all illegal ebikes were crushed overnight. It seems that the deliveroo etc services have boomed because some people can get access to a powered bike that they don't have a license, VED and insurance to pay for. They'd certainly not deliver to us on a bicycle; we are 4 miles from the city centre but it's very hilly, there is no cycling inrastructure and all food would arrive late and cold. I'd say it's an easy way of making money for some, who don't care about paid holidays or paid sick days. That said, I'd still like a much heavier crack-down even if it would mean only legal scooter riders then take up all the slack

 

[Dogtrousers]

but they do need to stop the importers

How? They're not illegal to import, they're not illegal to sell.

They're just illegal to use on the road.

To crack down on them you have to either enforce the the road laws and sieze them, which is done only sporadically (and that's possibly due to prioritisation of limited resources on the part the police) or rejig the laws on their sale which I think would be quite difficult. Or maybe do a Trump and just impose a mega import duty on them, but even then there would be a problem of enforcement as people would just buy direct from a website abroad.

 

[Psamathe]

I'd be interested to hear eveyone's view on what would happen if all illegal ebikes were crushed overnight. It seems that the deliveroo etc services have boomed because some people can get access to a powered bike that they don't have a license, VED and insurance to pay for. They'd certainly not deliver to us on a bicycle; we are 4 miles from the city centre but it's very hilly, there is no cycling inrastructure and all food would arrive late and cold. I'd say it's an easy way of making money for some, who don't care about paid holidays or paid sick days. That said, I'd still like a much heavier crack-down even if it would mean only legal scooter riders then take up all the slack

A business model based on law breaking?

I live probably too rurally to consider such services but people seemed to manage before these illegal bike based delivery services became so widespread, how? Few seem to be arguing it's an unreasonable law so maybe those dependent businesses need to find a legal business model.

 

[Psamathe]

To crack down on them you have to either enforce the the road laws and sieze them, which is done only sporadically (and that's possibly due to prioritisation of limited resources on the part the police) or rejig the laws on their sale which I think would be quite difficult

(Hope my question not covered earlier in the tread and I can't recollect every point made but) if part of the reason for limited enforcement the difficulty with identifying if a bike is legal or illegal. If an officer suspects a bike is too powerful is there an easy check on the spot?

If no easy means to identify are they ways to properly identify legal bikes with some certification system? Maybe a bit like the CE system where fake CE marks are illegal (I believe) and importing with a fake make would become illegal.

(nb I'm not familiar with law, etc. so thinking aloud and happy to he corrected).

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

(Hope my question not covered earlier in the tread and I can't recollect every point made but) if part of the reason for limited enforcement the difficulty with identifying if a bike is legal or illegal. If an officer suspects a bike is too powerful is there an easy check on the spot?

If no easy means to identify are they ways to properly identify legal bikes with some certification system? Maybe a bit like the CE system where fake CE marks are illegal (I believe) and importing with a fake make would become illegal.

(nb I'm not familiar with law, etc. so thinking aloud and happy to he corrected).

Legal bikes bought as such have to have a "plate" on them somewhere
mine is on the bottom bracket

but it is basically only a very good quality sticker that won;t come off

I saw a "kit" somewhere that came with a sticker anyway

I have also seen from some other countries a thing where they could put the bike on it and see how fast it went
but how the detect if the motor cuts out I am not sure

also - there is - apparently - some "allowance" as to the cut off speed - I think it is 10%

but I think they look for the easy wins
such as a hub motor the size of a dinner plate
and a clearly visible throttle - which is easy to test for if found

If they tackle all of them then the rest that are only a bit dodgy are much less of a problem and could be looked at later

 

[Dogtrousers]

(Hope my question not covered earlier in the tread and I can't recollect every point made but) if part of the reason for limited enforcement the difficulty with identifying if a bike is legal or illegal. If an officer suspects a bike is too powerful is there an easy check on the spot?

If no easy means to identify are they ways to properly identify legal bikes with some certification system? Maybe a bit like the CE system where fake CE marks are illegal (I believe) and importing with a fake make would become illegal.

(nb I'm not familiar with law, etc. so thinking aloud and happy to he corrected).

Here's what @Drago had to say on the subject recently. Referencing a "compliance plate". I'm not sure what that is but it may be similar to these stickers available for £3.99 from ebay.

You do t need to be qualified to look for the compliance plate/decal. If it doesn't have one its not a legal EPAC, regardless of whether it otherwise comforms to the cut out limit, etc.

Regular, ie, non specialist, bobbies are taught to look for the compliance plate/decal without any specialist knowledge or training. All it takes is functioning eyes and an idea of what they look ljke and where theyre typically found. No qualifications required.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Here's what @Drago had to say on the subject recently. Referencing a "compliance plate". I'm not sure what that is but it may be similar to these stickers available for £3.99 from ebay.

Thanks - I forgot about that contribution

if they stop me I hope they allow me to wipe the mud off
the plate seems to be in the perfect place to gather mud and general road carp!!!

 

[N0bodyOfTheGoat]

West Yorkshire Police, Leeds City
View attachment 792526

I do worry how literally police enforce the rules above...

Simply saying an ebike is illegal for exceeding 250W motor assistance is simply not true, from what I understand.

If the ebike in question exceeds 250W assistance average over a 30 minute period, then I believe it's illegal.

As to any legal limit on peak power, I have no idea.

From what I understand, there's also a small leaway on the 25kph (~15.5mph) motor assist cutoff limit of ~10% (just like with motor vehicle speed offences), because a bigger tyre is likely to trigger the cutoff at a slightly higher speed.

 

[Drago]

I do worry how literally police enforce the rules above...

Simply saying an ebike is illegal for exceeding 250W motor assistance is simply not true, from what I understand.

I dont think theyre literally interpreting the regs that way. To my eye they've simply summarised and somewhat simplified the situation to make palatable as a press release. No one is going to survive the ordeal were the dibble to include all 188 pages of the regulations regarding legal EPAC specifications.

 

[classic33]

How? They're not illegal to import, they're not illegal to sell.

They're just illegal to use on the road.

To crack down on them you have to either enforce the the road laws and sieze them, which is done only sporadically (and that's possibly due to prioritisation of limited resources on the part the police) or rejig the laws on their sale which I think would be quite difficult. Or maybe do a Trump and just impose a mega import duty on them, but even then there would be a problem of enforcement as people would just buy direct from a website abroad.

Why not start with the simple stuff. Riding, often at speed, on the pavements. No lights fitted, are they mechanically safe to be on the road. The same requirements that any cycle would have to comply with to be on the roads.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Why not start with the simple stuff. Riding, often at speed, on the pavements. No lights fitted, are they mechanically safe to be on the road. The same requirements that any cycle would have to comply with to be on the roads.

If, as Drago says, they start off with "has it got a valid plate on it"

then they could stop someone - me for example - on the basis that they have reason to suspect it is has a motor and is not legal
they could say "show me the plate" and I would

a quick check for a throttle - and they let you go