Internal vs external cabling

[fossyant]

Internal cabling done badly can be a rattling nightmare however I have one bike where the rear brake cable runs inside the top tube but this isn't done simply. Someone has gone to the trouble of brazing a thin tube inside the toptube from an angled recess behind the headtube to a similar exit point just in front of the seat cluster. When I got the frame I just thought it had been drilled for the whole cable to run through but no it wouldn't fit so I got a torch out to have a peer and the hole is closed off with a 1mm hole in the centre so I poked an inner through this thinking what a hassle it could be to find the other end and tweeze it through the exit but the end just popped straight out by the seatpost so there has to be an internal 'tube' the inner runs through inside the toptube. This must have been an incredible amount of work to accomplish cos not only the oval appertures are exactly the right size to accept outer cables with a ferrule but then to have the other end finish so neatly with the same fitting is mind boggling, it must have took hours of precision work to achieve but then the 'seat cluster' shows a similar amount of attention to detail

View attachment 578716

You can just about see where the brake cable emerges but I don't have a piccy of the other side of the bike (and I'm not trying to dig the bike out of the shed at half twelve on a Sunday night)

BTW when I bought the frame it had no decals other than the 3 '653' stickers, has no headbadge or frame number so I have no idea who made it but the workmanship is superb

Both my old road bikes have internal rear brake cables. Both are done with an internal 'pipe'. One has a 'pipe just thin enough for the inner, so has ferrules on each end, the other the outer and inner is inside the 'pipe'.

 

[Milkfloat]

carrying on that tangent: When the transition was made from levers with the cable coming out the top to aero style levers with cables under the tape as standard issue (when was that? Early 80s?) ... Anyway, if CC had been around at the time I'm sure the hair-shirt tendency would have been moaning about wannabe racers and how much more difficult it was because you have to untape the bars to replace the outers, and how it's all marketing fluff and my Wienmann Red Dot levers will do me fine thank you very much.

They might have still been moaning that bikes have gears and that someone replaced their rod brakes with cables in the first place.

 

[matticus]

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELL .....

The bar-tape issue - amongst others - does stop me replacing outers very often (but I'm pretty good at replacing inners promptly). So I'm not totally sold on hidden cables, even though I *do* prefer the looks.
It is possible to see that A New Thing has both pros and cons - whether it was invented in 1970 or 2010, or 1911. You may be aware that fixies are quite popular even in 2021 :P

(and no, I don't want internal-to-frame cables. kthxbai )

 

[coldash]

carrying on that tangent: When the transition was made from levers with the cable coming out the top to aero style levers with cables under the tape as standard issue (when was that? Early 80s?) ... Anyway, if CC had been around at the time I'm sure the hair-shirt tendency would have been moaning about wannabe racers and how much more difficult it was because you have to untape the bars to replace the outers, and how it's all marketing fluff and my Wienmann Red Dot levers will do me fine thank you very much.

Much later. Tiagra 4500 was standard fit on some Giant SCRs in 2007 for example although Campag systems were under the tape at that time

 

[T4tomo]

Much later. Tiagra 4500 was standard fit on some Giant SCRs in 2007 for example although Campag systems were under the tape at that time

Brake cables went under the bar tape a lot earlier than gear cables though didn't they? I'm thinking Shimano flightdeck series - that had brakes under wraps but even the Ultegra shifters still had cables coming out at 90* to the hoods. (I was never rich enough to afford durace....)

 

[coldash]

Brake cables went under the bar tape a lot earlier than gear cables though didn't they? I'm thinking Shimano flightdeck series - that had brakes under wraps but even the Ultegra shifters still had cables coming out at 90* to the hoods. (I was never rich enough to afford durace....)

Yes

 

[coldash]

I figured the best way was checking for photos of Tour de France winners.
View attachment 578766 Hinault '81. Still sticking out the top.
View attachment 578769 Fignon '83. Under the tape. Although other pics from the same year show him also with the older type.

So early 80s. Assuming consumer bikes closely followed the pros.

I think these are only brake cables. The gear changers were probably still on the downtube

 

[T4tomo]

I figured the best way was checking for photos of Tour de France winners.
View attachment 578766 Hinault '81. Still sticking out the top.
View attachment 578769 Fignon '83. Under the tape. Although other pics from the same year show him also with the older type.

So early 80s. Assuming consumer bikes closely followed the pros.

I have a 1987 Peugeot that has them Hinault style, so maybe not that closely followed...BTW Its a decent 531 tubed one, none of your bottom end entry level, off the shelf crap @matticus

 

[T4tomo]

I know. That's what I was referring to in my post above. The gear changers are most definitely on the downtube in '81. We don't get fugly brifters until ...
View attachment 578777 Indurain '91 or thereabouts..

indeed Eroica and other historical ride rules put a cut off of 1987 for "authentic" bikes which includes having downtube shifters. a quick google says Shimano STI introduced in 1990, just in time for the Big Mig era.

 

[Once a Wheeler]

Brake cables went under the bar tape a lot earlier than gear cables though didn't they?

Remember that handlebar end controls took gear cables under the tape from the late 50s:

Rik van Looy (Solo), Willy Vanitsen (Ford) plus one other in Gent–Wevelgem, 1965.
https://capovelo.com/rik-van-looy-3/

 

[coldash]

To some extent, Shimano were / are playing catch up with Campagnolo on under the tape gear shifters. The old out of the side of the housing Shimano type were less susceptible to cable fraying than the under the tape type. Campag never really had the same problem. Not an issue with DI2 etc but they have their own set of “features”

Putting the brake cable under the tape is trivial in comparison- no indexing involved so precision etc less of an issue

 

[matticus]

I've had teenagers at a ride meet point at my DT shifters and ask what they are. (this was 2012-ish?)

 

[T4tomo]

I've had teenagers at a ride meet point at my DT shifters and ask what they are. (this was 2012-ish?)

I offered my nephew a choice of my 1987 Peugeot or a more modern MTB as station hack when he was staying with me over summer doing work experience maybe 3 years ago. He took one look at it and shook his head proclaiming to be "not that sure about curly handlebars and wouldn't have a clue how to change gear with those things down there"

 

[matticus]

I offered my nephew a choice of my 1987 Peugeot or a more modern MTB as station hack when he was staying with me over summer doing work experience maybe 3 years ago. He took one look at it and shook his head proclaiming to be "not that sure about curly handlebars and wouldn't have a clue how to change gear with those things down there"

I daren't ask if either of them had disc brakes ...

 

[T4tomo]

I daren't ask if either of them had disc brakes ...

The mountain bike did!

Everything has its place, disc on the more modern MTB and on the Gravel bike. Rim brakes for the summer road bike.....and other assorted steeds....

I think was mjr that would rather slay his first born than have disc brake.